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Thread: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    That's because that would be a big bluff to call. Better we leave well enough alone.
    It maybe a big bluff, but it might be an acceptable risk. Russia has already needed to sell 10 billion in bonds to keep their rouble stable. At the end of the day, Russia is not like the Arab nations who pulled the last large scale energy embargo (extremely small, ethnicaly homogenous populations and huge currency reserves).

    Rather, Russia has 170 million people including a certain number who are not ethnically Russian and may or may not identify with Russian goals. For example, some of their natural gas provinces are in Muslim provinces. The local populations might not be supportive if Putin not only wants to strong arm fellow Muslims in Crimea, but also cuts of their source of revenue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    The EU is struggling right now too! Anyway, if Putin moves to secure the country and his assets, installs a pro Russian government and gets the hell out, everyone will be better off, save the half of the population that won't be happy.
    CNN, or one of the other big networks was saying the Putin wants not only a pro Russian governmet, but also a union treaty between Ukraine and Russia. In short, he might not be leaving.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    A "pro-Russian government" can no longer be sustained in Ukraine except by force.
    I agree (and doubly agree if Putin wants a union treaty).

    As a side note, Putins claims that Russians are in the majority in Crimea are based on a census that is ten years old and did not count the continued influx of pro Ukrainian Tatars. Western oriented Ukrainians can even call out crowds in Kharkov / Kharkiy which is in far east Urkraine. And... the Ukrainian admiral who defected has gone to Ukrainian bases trying to get more Ukrainians to join him and has been flatly turned down.

    Though there are probably millions of wildly pro Russian Ukrainians, my guess is that the total number is substantially less than 50% of the population.
    Last edited by Cryptic; 03-03-14 at 10:42 PM.

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Sure I do. But what transpired in Ukraine wasn't a revolution, it was an anti-democracy rebellion. And you wouldn't condone it here, or would you?
    It was a protest movement against the criminal and corrupt government of Yanukovych that ended up with a peace deal to reform the government. When the Ukrainian Parliament (the dude's own party, BTW) voted to impeach Yanukovych, he and his ministers fled to Russia. If Obama (or Bush) ran away because they got impeached, I'd view that as an abandonment of duty and no longer consider him my president, whether or not I agree with his policies.
    Last edited by MadLib; 03-04-14 at 12:10 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    It was a protest movement against the criminal and corrupt government of Yanukovych that ended up with a peace deal to reform the government. When the Ukrainian Parliament (the dude's own party, BTW) voted to impeach Yanukovych, he and his ministers fled to Russia. If Obama (or Bush) ran away because they got impeached, I'd view that as an abandonment of duty and no longer consider him my president, whether or not I agree with his policies.
    You're starting to come around. I'm very proud of you!
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    A "pro-Russian government" can no longer be sustained in Ukraine except by force.
    I love it when the apologists for Russian expansionism support the idea of Putin forcibly restoring Yanukovych to the presidency. That would be political and diplomatic suicide for Moscow: there's no way that the Ukrainian people would stand even a few more months of that crook's regime, and whatever existing support for Russia amongst Ukrainians would vanish.
    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Hah. If someone put me in their sig, I'd never know. I have sigs off.

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You're starting to come around. I'm very proud of you!
    Hey! The right of Ukraine to integrate with the European Union freely and without interference by other nations is a very liberal goal.
    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Hah. If someone put me in their sig, I'd never know. I have sigs off.

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    Hey! The right of Ukraine to integrate with the European Union freely and without interference by other nations is a very liberal goal.
    Lately, I've noticed you're displaying a significant amount of common sense. I don't know what happened, and I don't care, because I couldn't be prouder!
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK



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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    It was a protest movement against the criminal and corrupt government of Yanukovych that ended up with a peace deal to reform the government. When the Ukrainian Parliament (the dude's own party, BTW) voted to impeach Yanukovych, he and his ministers fled to Russia. If Obama (or Bush) ran away because they got impeached, I'd view that as an abandonment of duty and no longer consider him my president, whether or not I agree with his policies.
    You don't value your life much.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    lol. Just so funny to hear you defend power politics and ignoring world opinion and international law after all this time of you complaining about the US doing those things. I love it!
    Glad to give my old pal a chuckle. It's funny that you think the West IS THE WORLD. And that international law is only important when you think that a country other than the US has violated it. You forget that you're still wrong that Russia has violated IL. And dude, by you're own admission, on another board, you don't give a **** about IL. but that's between you and me, these guys won't know about that.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    Hey! The right of Ukraine to integrate with the European Union freely and without interference by other nations is a very liberal goal.
    You speak as though ALL of the Ukraine wished for that.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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