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Thread: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    If you look at history, cool heads generally provide more favorable outcomes in conflicts like this. Only a lunatic would think the U.S. is going to go to war with Russia over Ukraine. Diplomacy is the only option here and pretending to take a possible military posture will do nothing but raise tensions.

    We will try and wrestle Ukraine away from Russia using soft power and the will of the Ukranian people in the safest manner possible. The Soviet Union and communism collapsed without firing a single bullet, diplomacy and economics are the weapon of choice for these situations now.
    This is demonstrably false. I can only conclude that you haven't looked at much history.
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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    This is demonstrably false. I can only conclude that you haven't looked at much history.
    Then study the history of Chechnya.
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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I'm still not clear on what you think Obama should do?
    Stage military readiness exercises of forces in the EU bases, issue orders to ready a deployment of a carrier group to the area. Any number of other levels of military posturing to let Putin know that the US is quite capable of defending Ukraine as per our treaty.

    Once this is established then you can have a talk with Russia.

    As it is Putin just laughs at any US attempt at diplomacy because he knows, in the end, that the US will do nothing to stand in the way.

    Following this you can expect a few months later Putin will start signalling the need for Russian troops in some other state that was previously a part of the Soviet Union, claiming the need to protect ethnic Russians who invariably inhabit the border regions of ALL previously Soviet States.

    This will also get China seriously thinking about action in Taiwan and elsewhere after Putin has shown the US will not protect its Allies. Hell, China even more-so than Russia will feel emboldened by this because China knows that the US would feel serious pain from a embargoing China.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Stage military readiness exercises of forces in the EU bases, issue orders to ready a deployment of a carrier group to the area. Any number of other levels of military posturing to let Putin know that the US is quite capable of defending Ukraine as per our treaty.

    Once this is established then you can have a talk with Russia.

    As it is Putin just laughs at any US attempt at diplomacy because he knows, in the end, that the US will do nothing to stand in the way.

    Following this you can expect a few months later Putin will start signalling the need for Russian troops in some other state that was previously a part of the Soviet Union, claiming the need to protect ethnic Russians who invariably inhabit the border regions of ALL previously Soviet States.

    This will also get China seriously thinking about action in Taiwan and elsewhere after Putin has shown the US will not protect its Allies. Hell, China even more-so than Russia will feel emboldened by this because China knows that the US would feel serious pain from a embargoing China.
    I don't think our aircraft carriers or ships have access to bases in the Black Sea.
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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Stage military readiness exercises of forces in the EU bases, issue orders to ready a deployment of a carrier group to the area. Any number of other levels of military posturing to let Putin know that the US is quite capable of defending Ukraine as per our treaty.

    Once this is established then you can have a talk with Russia.

    As it is Putin just laughs at any US attempt at diplomacy because he knows, in the end, that the US will do nothing to stand in the way.

    Following this you can expect a few months later Putin will start signalling the need for Russian troops in some other state that was previously a part of the Soviet Union, claiming the need to protect ethnic Russians who invariably inhabit the border regions of ALL previously Soviet States.

    This will also get China seriously thinking about action in Taiwan and elsewhere after Putin has shown the US will not protect its Allies. Hell, China even more-so than Russia will feel emboldened by this because China knows that the US would feel serious pain from a embargoing China.
    You want to start WWIII for what reason? Why on earth would that be a good idea? What positive outcome could be SO worth it to do such a thing? You want millions of people to die to show Putin we're not pussies?

    This is so incredibly unnecessary. Putin is going to keep Crimea, he wants to scare Ukraine and try and get another pro Russian puppet in there to replace the one that was just ousted, that's all he wants. Yes this sucks for Ukraine but I'm pretty sure its preferable to decimation.

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    I don't think our aircraft carriers or ships have access to bases in the Black Sea.
    Turkey is a traditional enemy of Russia, both in the Crimea, and in the Caucuses.

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Turkey is a traditional enemy of Russia, both in the Crimea, and in the Caucuses.
    Right now Russia is in the process of making more enemy's for itself.
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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    This is demonstrably false. I can only conclude that you haven't looked at much history.
    This is kind of strange, take a look at WWI, what started it? After WWI what did everyone do to try and avoid such a thing happening again?

    This is not WWII again, Putin is not Hitler, he is not going to try and take over Europe.

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    Right now Russia is in the process of making more enemy's for itself.
    Good point. I bet that will scare them in their little pointy boots.


    ....Or they won't care because Green NIMBYism keeps us from effectively developing the energy resources that would be necessary to save Eastern Europe from their grasp, they know that we won't respond with actual force, and Russians always prefer to be feared than loved in their Near Abroad.


    What Enemy is Russia creating that is going to be so devastating for it? The EU? The EU is dependent upon Russian energy exports - what are they going to do?

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    Then study the history of Chechnya.
    The US had no standing treaty to defend Chechnya. Also Chechnya was a known hotbed of Islamic terrorism that he US was in the process of combating anyway. As such, for right or wrong the US was indifferent to the Russia action in Chechnya which was itself in response to terrorist attacks and threats from the region.

    Also consider the size of Chechnya when compared to Ukraine. While the Russian's say they only have designs on Crimea, in reality, if Ukraine decides to fight the occupation the war will suddenly grow to scales that haven't been seen in a very long time with massive refugee crisis within the EU member states that border Ukraine.

    The Ukrainian military is 6,000,000 strong. While it would eventually loose to a Russian invasion the death toll would be staggering.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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