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Thread: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    He'd have better luck playing Axis and Allies using the infantry push mechanic.

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    The UN is pretty toothless when it comes to Russia, most especially since Russia, with veto power, will vote no to any UN interference in their dealings with Ukraine. But Fox News this morning, via an anonymous source, said the Security Council does have the request from Ukraine and is considering it.

    But given that the UN most likely will not be able to act, we would have to proceed without UN blessings. Does anybody here want us to do that?
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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    Ukraine pleads for Britain and US to come to its rescue as Russia accused of 'invasion' - Telegraph

    Paramilitary proxy warfare or will this continue to escalate?[/FONT]
    [/FONT][/COLOR]
    Russia is trying a bluff but they won't hesitate to take it over, like Georgia, IMO. There's too much on the line for them, financially and strategically.

    We won't do anything, except for rhetoric and wind blowing. There's little we can do to Russia that doesn't end well.
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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    It seems to me that Russia is beefing up it's presence in Crimea because it has substantial assets and interests there. Russian military bases dot the Crimean peninsula. Who knows what organizations the people who nabbed the airport and ministry are, but until that becomes clear, we should not resort to too much speculation.

    It doesn't seem like an invasion is taking place, and the territorial incursions are designed to secure Russian assets that Ukraine has allowed to operate via legal lease etc. So I don't think the context of the treaty has reached a tipping point. The gov't in Kiev can diffuse the situation if it shows some leadership and avoids provocation itself. This is something to watch carefully, however.

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    The EU didn't sign the treaty. And what future value is there to non-proliferation treaty's if they don't last a decade in practice?
    Yes, my point is no one in the EU should act all shocked as if this sort of thing just doesn't happen when Modern European History is chok-a-block with treaties that don't last any longer than May Flowers.

    But on to the main point, what does the treaty obligate the US, France or China to do exactly?

    For that matter has the Russian Bear crossed the Eastern Border?

    As far as anyone can verify, key word there, this 'verify', the armed men are locals in some sort of ad-hoc self defense force.

    Now on the future value, as an Irishman you should know the history of your nation and the rest of Europe. Treaties are worth what they are as long as they are of value to the signatories, soon as that changes then a fast as a Hooker's smile fades so to does the adherence.

    So far the treaty is still being honored. But do you think the USofA should pour combat units into the Ukraine if the Russians cross the Eastern Border and seize half of the Ukraine?

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Treaty or not treaty the EU shoudl be taking the lead on this considering its the EU that Ukraine wants to remain with! Time for Merkel and company to validate this union of theirs.
    ‘This is not peace, it is an armistice for 20 years.’ (Ferdinand Foch. After the Treaty of Versailles, 1919).

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    Ukraine pleads for Britain and US to come to its rescue as Russia accused of 'invasion' - Telegraph

    Paramilitary proxy warfare or will this continue to escalate?[/FONT]
    [/FONT][/COLOR]
    We have to be careful. It sounds to me like our cold war fear of the USSR is being used to get us involved in a situation that we don't need to be involved in. Our involvement only serves to escalate the problems there. Diplomacy is key.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    Treaty or not treaty the EU shoudl be taking the lead on this considering its the EU that Ukraine wants to remain with! Time for Merkel and company to validate this union of theirs.

    Exactly what does the EU have that would give Russia pause? The first thing the Russians would do is cut off the natural gas, and then it's over before it even started, whatever "it" was going to be.

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    Exactly what does the EU have that would give Russia pause? The first thing the Russians would do is cut off the natural gas, and then it's over before it even started, whatever "it" was going to be.
    25 Nato members in Europe which would give Russia plenty to think about.
    ‘This is not peace, it is an armistice for 20 years.’ (Ferdinand Foch. After the Treaty of Versailles, 1919).

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    25 Nato members in Europe which would give Russia plenty to think about.
    Agreed. However, they would be looking for the US too. We aren't there, and by all indications, our president has no stomach for it. If the EU can herd it's NATO cats together, that would be a first. I hope they do because I don't think we're going to anything other than express grave concern at the UN. Hopefully, the situation will cool down before anything more serious happens. I have my doubts. Putin wants the Crimea if he can get it without too much fuss.

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