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Thread: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    The Ukraine is a part of Europe and Putin himself signed a pact guaranteeing their sovereignty. This cannot be allowed to stand either.
    The Europeans wanted to pull Ukraine out of Russia's orbit. They messed it up.

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Where do you think Putin will get the money to run Russia once the Europeans sanction him? Russia is not the USSR which was autonomous of trade with other nations.
    When the Europeans sanction Russia? Why he will get the money from the Chinese. They have wanted the European natural gas allotment for years.

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Where do you think Putin will get the money to run Russia once the Europeans sanction him? Russia is not the USSR which was autonomous of trade with other nations.
    Trade with China

    Russia exports raw materials, oil and gas being the prime money makers. It has added pipelines to export to China, to bypass Ukraine into northern and southern Europe

    As Europe currently has no options to replace Russian gas, the sanctions will be limited, and easily bypassed. Russia to my knowledge only exports metals to the US (most important titanium) which can easily be exported to other markets, and as for US exports to Russia are primarily agricultural. US based companies of course export other goods to Russia, but they are made elsewhere (ie asia)
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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Where do you think Putin will get the money to run Russia once the Europeans sanction him? Russia is not the USSR which was autonomous of trade with other nations. Putin is not stupid and knows he will lose his office if he crashes the Russian economy which now depends on oil and gas exports to survive.
    Russia is a big seller of crude oil and natural gas. Russia also has access to the global markets. The EU almost certainly won't sanction Russia's oil and natural gas sales, as it would have a large energy gap to fill. Russia's growing trade from China also won't be impacted.

    Also, we agree that Putin is not stupid. I don't see him going beyond Crimea unless other events precipitated such a move. One example might be other sections in Ukraine trying to break away and Ukraine's using force to try to quash the separation. Another might involve some kind of Ukrainian military effort to try to reassert control over Crimea (a reckless gamble that would be certain to fail).

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Trade with China

    Russia exports raw materials, oil and gas being the prime money makers. It has added pipelines to export to China, to bypass Ukraine into northern and southern Europe

    As Europe currently has no options to replace Russian gas, the sanctions will be limited, and easily bypassed. Russia to my knowledge only exports metals to the US (most important titanium) which can easily be exported to other markets, and as for US exports to Russia are primarily agricultural. US based companies of course export other goods to Russia, but they are made elsewhere (ie asia)
    Energy is where it's at and yet the US is not exploring or exploiting energy sufficiently on its own continent and, until a new President is elected, probably won't. Obama wants a PC domestic policy and that will certainly override its international interests. He really is just a food stamp president.

    It also seems that many Americans don't realize that an insecure world is not good for anyone's prosperity. Post WWII American leaders understood this and implemented the Marshall Plan. Now that is all forgotten. There are those want to be prosperous and yet remain isolationist, the last being an impossibility in today's world.

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Russia is a big seller of crude oil and natural gas. Russia also has access to the global markets. The EU almost certainly won't sanction Russia's oil and natural gas sales, as it would have a large energy gap to fill. Russia's growing trade from China also won't be impacted.

    Also, we agree that Putin is not stupid. I don't see him going beyond Crimea unless other events precipitated such a move. One example might be other sections in Ukraine trying to break away and Ukraine's using force to try to quash the separation. Another might involve some kind of Ukrainian military effort to try to reassert control over Crimea (a reckless gamble that would be certain to fail).
    When Obama pulled missile Defense out of eastern Europe (allegedly to defend the area from Iran) everything changed. Poland, among other eastern European nations, were never concerned about Iran, as Obama repeatedly said, but Russia. And, apparently, they appear to be right. Who will stop Putin?

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    When Obama pulled missile Defense out of eastern Europe (allegedly to defend the area from Iran) everything changed. Poland, among other eastern European nations, were never concerned about Iran, as Obama repeatedly said, but Russia. And, apparently, they appear to be right. Who will stop Putin?
    IMO, NATO needs to closely integrate all of its Eastern European members, who are now feeling unsettled. NATO should not expand beyond its existing membership, as an increasingly expansive alliance lacks credibility. It should focus on building sufficient deterrents among its Eastern European members to assure that they feel secure and any threats are, in fact, deterred.

    On a separate note, I believe the proposed cuts in military manpower are rather reckless. Manpower is still crucial and technology is not a substitute for manpower, especially in a world where countries have available options to increase manpower and improve their technology/gain access to improved technology. The current proposal appears to be little more than a reincarnation of Secretary Rumsfeld's "go light" approach that discounted the value of manpower and proved badly off the mark when tested in Iraq. It could not lead to stability following the end of major combat and the security vacuum facilitated the rise of an insurgency.

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    On a separate note, I believe the proposed cuts in military manpower are rather reckless. .
    It sent a very clear message to everyone from the Russians to the Iranians to Al Qaeda to the Chinese to North Korea to Somalian pirates. It is impossible to isolate from anyone.

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    I wonder what Putin would do if UN troops were deployed in Ukraine.

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    CNN claiming that a Pentagon official has concluded that Russia now have full operational control of the region

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