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Thread: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Your problem is that you have the guy sitting in the White House TODAY that goes about threatening war and then drawing impotent 'red lines' and making empty threats.

    I dont know if sending in the troops is the right answer. I DO know for certain that you cant threaten to hold your breath til you pass out as an effective foreign policy strategy. Obama is a limp moron and the world sees it and knows it.
    Exactly.



    Now I'm not certain that this is going to evolve into another cold war. It could, and Putin's KGB background and experience certainly plays into that. Perhaps it's what he's most comfortable with? But you have to admit the parallels between modern Ukraine and previous history's Czechoslovakia and Hungary is deeply disturbing.

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Commie View Post
    I think it's a problem that he's threatening war in the first place! If he wasn't aware of what his staffers like Nuland were doing, he should have removed them as soon as possible afterwards. The Ukraine almost broke up in the immediate aftermath gaining independence in the aftermath of the fall of the Soviet Union. How did they not know that trying to pry the Ukraine out of the Russian orbit, would cause a break up?
    What? Obama? Aware of someone in his administration?

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    Rubio wants sanctions which will lead to a cold war with a top 5 member of the security council.
    He and Cruz need to let the adults speak, like Buck McKeon, instead of expanding on their ignorance .
    Wait...Rubio is calling for the same thing Obama called for...and you hopscotched your CiC and attack Rubio?

    Its ALWAYS the other guy...right? Even when it is YOUR guy...its the other guys fault. The other guy made you do it it. At WORST, you are offering comments from Rubio in SUPPORT of Obamas serious economic and political consequences threat.

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Man of Context View Post
    Sending supplies would do absolutely nothing. I don't think Ukrainian soldiers will even try to stand up to Russian forces, whatever armaments we give them.

    Mobilizing American naval and air forces is the only meaningful thing we can do to show Russia that we mean business, and to show the Ukrainian military that they aren't alone if war breaks out. This, I think, would stiffen Ukrainian resolve and weaken Russian resolve, enough that Russia withdraws.

    Will that happen? Almost certainly not. Russia will come out on top in this, I think.

    So much for winning the Cold War.
    I don't know if you are blaming Obama, but Americans are increasingly disinterested in spending blood and treasure in places around the world that aren't a threat to us. Syria proved this. It's a good thing too. And Russia is doing nothing different than the US has done so many times around the world.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    MAD has kept the peace in Europe for half a century. Call this a crazy idea but if you want real world peace then every country, no matter how small, should be armed with hundreds of nukes, that way nobody would be dumb enough to start a war with one another.
    Yep, every country gets them, or no country gets them, and preferably nobody.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    I can't believe you think this is all our fight since the Ukraine is right on Europe's doorstep. Saber rattling will only inflame the situation. NATO needs to make a statement and sanctions agreed upon. The best way to get to Putin is in his pocketbook and a embargo on Russian oil and natural gas will strangle the beast. This is not the USSR of the 1960's.
    Sanctions are an act of war, at least an invitation, of themselves. I don't think Putin has designs on Europe. This should be let alone.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    The worst thing that can happen at this point for Ukraine is that the provisional government decides to take military action. I think Putin's strategy is that he hopes Ukraine launches an assault to try to drive the Russians out of the Crimea, and Russia can then use this as a casus belli to occupy the rest of the country and reinstate Yanukovych. Putin is counting on the West not intervening.
    AN AUTHORITARIAN SOCIALIST OPPOSED TO GLOBALISM, ZIONISM, AND FEMINISM, AND IN FAVOR OF SOVEREIGN NATIONS, A PALESTINIAN STATE, AND MEN'S RIGHTS!

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I don't know if you are blaming Obama, but Americans are increasingly disinterested in spending blood and treasure in places around the world that aren't a threat to us. Syria proved this. It's a good thing too. And Russia is doing nothing different than the US has done so many times around the world.
    It is sad that I have to preface this question by saying this is a question, but here it is....I have now read this quote from you Monte several times, and it suggests that you are excusing Putin for inserting troops into the Ukraine based on the fact that America in your eyes has done the same in the past, thus giving Putin a pass for doing so. Why, if you are to be intellectually honest, would you do that?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Man of Context View Post
    Ukraine IS Europe, and if I believed Europe to be politically capable of dealing with this issue I would see things differently.

    But Europe is barely politically capable of holding together what amounts to little more than a free trade agreement.

    Like modern America, Europe is far more likely to cede either swathes of Ukrainian territory to Russia or political control of Ukraine to pro-Russians. They won't fight for Ukraine.



    Sanctions would be more harmful for European members of NATO than they would be for Russia. Any serious sanctions will gain no political traction in Europe. Even if they did, I think that Putin really thinks that he can make Russia a real player in global politics again, and who knows what he's willing to risk for that vision.

    Regarding inflammation of the situation, allowing Russia to invade it's neighbors without any serious action taken against them is really what'll inflame the situation. The Russians need to come to understand that they'll never have the same geopolitical influence they once did. Only then can the situation really cool down.



    If "the beast" is what little remains of European unity, sure.
    It's difficult to dogmatically state what the Ukraine IS. It has been voluntarily under Russian control, under the kingdom of Poland by conquest, independent, under Russian control by force, briefly independent, and may come under control of Russia again by force. It's no traditional European country.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    It is sad that I have to preface this question by saying this is a question, but here it is....I have now read this quote from you Monte several times, and it suggests that you are excusing Putin for inserting troops into the Ukraine based on the fact that America in your eyes has done the same in the past, thus giving Putin a pass for doing so. Why, if you are to be intellectually honest, would you do that?
    I'm not excusing force ever even though you argue it's the world we live in and necessary. It's not an excuse as much as an acknowledgement that powerful nations do what think is in their own best interests with no regard to individual liberty. But my main point was that neither Russia nor the Ukraine is a threat to the US and I don't want our blood and treasure spent defending it. ESPECIALLY if it meant engaging Russia, for a group of Ukrainian protesters. I'm glad that a majority of Americans no longer feel the need for the US to intervene every time there's a protest aimed at toppling a government. And it's not an absence of sympathy towards the human desire for liberty, no more than Americans lacked sympathy for those hitler was attacking in the late 30's early 40's. it's just that not all Americans want the US to jump in the middle of every dispute around the world.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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