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Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

I wish I knew how to speak Russian. How much fun it would be to be a fly on the wall an listen to Putin chat with his friends about Obama's manhood.
 
Historically Ukrainians liked killing Russians more than anyone else.

Sure, and I won't deny the political importance of the distinction between the Ukrainians and Russians, but it's worth noting that this is very akin to the distinction between Austrians and Germans. Political, not cultural.
 
I don't think anyone is predicting WWIII just yet, but a this is the same kind of power vacuum and limp diplomacy that we saw in the 1930s that emboldened Japan and Germany and hastened WWII.

You do see the difference between Hitler's move and Putin though don't you?
 
Why exactly would Russia declare it independent? Remember that the whole pretext here is that old European notion that people of a certain nationality should share a single government, that same pretext which lead to a century of bloody European warfare.

Ukraine is culturally Russian. Whether or not this ought to put them under the control of Moscow is the real question.


I never said Russia would declare it independent, but Crimea itself will. Using the coup in Ukraine as a pretext, along with a regional vote. Which Russia will recognize, and then support.


Western Ukraine is lost to Russia, parts of Eastern Ukraine could stay within the Russian sphere of influence (ie the Russian speaking parts) and Putin I expect knows this and is trying to salvage something from Ukraine rather then face a total loss
 
I'm not excusing force ever even though you argue it's the world we live in and necessary. It's not an excuse as much as an acknowledgement that powerful nations do what think is in their own best interests with no regard to individual liberty. But my main point was that neither Russia nor the Ukraine is a threat to the US and I don't want our blood and treasure spent defending it. ESPECIALLY if it meant engaging Russia, for a group of Ukrainian protesters. I'm glad that a majority of Americans no longer feel the need for the US to intervene every time there's a protest aimed at toppling a government. And it's not an absence of sympathy towards the human desire for liberty, no more than Americans lacked sympathy for those hitler was attacking in the late 30's early 40's. it's just that not all Americans want the US to jump in the middle of every dispute around the world.

I don't think that under the current leadership of this country (or lack of) will bring any response that would significantly alter Russia's path in the Ukraine. And I agree that I don't want US troops used in that region. However, we can see that as the US weakens our stance on the world stage, more nefarious players like Russia are emboldened. Note; Russian war ship docked in Cuba, and Iran's naval force (such that it is) steaming a destroyer toward US waters. In times past there would have been serious thought as to provoking us like that. Now, not so much....And I don't agree that this is a good thing.
 
Preferences don't rewrite history. We DID make those assurances.



In which case you should look up the word "conquest".



Putin is in the process of conquering parts of the Ukraine. He certainly has designs on Europe, and he's acting on those designs right this second.



These are fantastic pretexts, except this isn't all they're using. Russian nationalism is the predominant pretext. These territories are largely Russian speaking, and thus should be under Russian control, by their thinking.

You'll recognize this pretext if you study 19th and 20th century European history.

Perhaps you should look up the definition of conquest, simply, its the act of taking control of a people/country through the use of force, which we have done as recently as the last administration. You want to say that because we left a decade latter it wasn't a conquest?

Putin is securing a country in civil unrest in which he has physical assets, a country on his border. It makes complete sense. Here's something else for you that makes complete sense. The US has smugly thrown its weight around for far too long, not just big powers like Russia and China are pushing back. Little powers like Venezuela and Bolivia, Ecuador, are as well. And more and more Americans are changing their minds about it, thankfully. If you think engaging Putin militarily over the plight of the Ukraine, is a good idea, YOU write a check and then put on your uniform and go give your life for that **** and leave my sons out of it!
 
I don't think that under the current leadership of this country (or lack of) will bring any response that would significantly alter Russia's path in the Ukraine. And I agree that I don't want US troops used in that region. However, we can see that as the US weakens our stance on the world stage, more nefarious players like Russia are emboldened. Note; Russian war ship docked in Cuba, and Iran's naval force (such that it is) steaming a destroyer toward US waters. In times past there would have been serious thought as to provoking us like that. Now, not so much....And I don't agree that this is a good thing.


How do you feel current compares to the previous admin when handling Russia?

Recall the damage done to Georgia, in which nothing but sharp words were said
 
I wish I knew how to speak Russian. How much fun it would be to be a fly on the wall an listen to Putin chat with his friends about Obama's manhood.

America is in (has been) in decline for sometime now. This isn't all about Obama. Russia and China both have been backing the US up. It's not going to end. You another one that thinks we should engage the Russian military just to prove a point. Just to prove that we're the tuff kid on the block?
 
How do you feel current compares to the previous admin when handling Russia?

Recall the damage done to Georgia, in which nothing but sharp words were said

Partisans don't criticise their own. Even when they are wrong.
 
How do you feel current compares to the previous admin when handling Russia?

Recall the damage done to Georgia, in which nothing but sharp words were said

What happened with Bush is irrelevant, but if you really want to go down that road, Bush pushed hard for Georgia to get into the EU, conversely, Obama is silent on this matter for Ukraine....
 
The EU is struggling, why would anyone want in.
 
America is in (has been) in decline for sometime now. This isn't all about Obama. Russia and China both have been backing the US up. It's not going to end. You another one that thinks we should engage the Russian military just to prove a point. Just to prove that we're the tuff kid on the block?

Not at all. We should not engage either side in this conflict. My comment was to make clear that whatever Obama says, his credibility is ZERO, and the world's stage knows it.
 
Really! You've watch me criticise both Bush and Obama, so what are you talking about?

Your unity in equal criticism on that only stems from your own hatred of the US in general, so spare me.
 
Not at all. We should not engage either side in this conflict. My comment was to make clear that whatever Obama says, his credibility is ZERO, and the world's stage knows it.

You think Bush's punk ass talk and way of handling things bought him credibility in the world? You ever notice how close he stays to home?? It's time for other countries to stop hanging onto the US shirt tails, and take a little charge themselves. Now then, you can talk tuff or you can send in our military to engage the Russians, which do you prefer?
 
Your unity in equal criticism on that only stems from your own hatred of the US in general, so spare me.

Move the goal poles because you failed with your charge that I'm a partisan like you.:lamo
 
Move the goal poles because you failed with your charge that I'm a partisan like you.:lamo

No, calling something what it is, is not moving any goal posts, just speaking the truth....Your 'partisanship' if that is what you want to address is in being a partisan against the US.....It really is simple.
 
No, calling something what it is, is not moving any goal posts, just speaking the truth....Your 'partisanship' if that is what you want to address is in being a partisan against the US.....It really is simple.

A Partisan is loyal to a party first, anything else second. I am loyal to America first and prefer that we were that shinning city on a hill that Reagan dreamed about. But unfortunately, hegemony, imperialism and exploitation has gotten in our way, and the partisan has facilitated it.
 
Ukrainians apparently signing up at military recruitment centres in their droves.

Both pro and anti war demonstrations in Moscow. Apparently one of the women at a pro-war rally tweeted she and others were forced by her boss to be there. Meanwhile around 50 anti war demonstrators were detained. I've seen it said that 'Kiev' was heading to a street near you, I wonder if that street may be in Moscow if things escalate.
 
Seems like a long time ago now...but Canada used to have an independent government! Now, we have a Conservative toady who asks the President how high to jump!

Where did you read anything of Harper requesting the permission of Barrack Obama? Harper knows Obama is a fool, and has politely said so.
 
And Russian TV won't air the Oscars. It's on like Donkey Kong.
 
A Partisan is loyal to a party first, anything else second. I am loyal to America first and prefer that we were that shinning city on a hill that Reagan dreamed about. But unfortunately, hegemony, imperialism and exploitation has gotten in our way, and the partisan has facilitated it.

"I am loyal to America first and prefer that we were that shinning city on a hill that Reagan dreamed about."

I smell something and it isn't roses....:lamo
 
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