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Thread: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

  1. #101
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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    This thread is so funny and devoid of facts and reality.

    First of all there are already were tons of Russian troops in the Crimea.. it is called the Russian Black Sea Fleet and this is what it is all about. The Ukraine opposition has for almost a decade wanted its hands on this fleet and the port of Sevastopol. That is why the Russians are acting the way they are and putting troops into the Crimea to prevent that the new Ukrainian government trying to seize the base and fleet. Putin and Russia will do anything to defend this critical piece of their military... it is their only winter fleet base they have.

    Secondly the Crimea was given to Ukraine during the Soviet period. It was never really part of historical Ukraine. The huge majority of people are Russians and want to be link to Russia. If you had a vote in the area even before the crisis, then they would vote by a massive margin to return to Russia.

    Thirdly calling Obama weak is kinda funny when Bush allowed Putin to invade and occupy a country similar to this... was Bush weak too?

    And finally what exactly can anyone do? Like it or not logistically any attempt to help the Ukrainians is bound to fail. Plus why should we care? The opposition aint exactly good either, and half the country hates the opposition. This is a mess that no one wants to get involved in, including the US with a right wing fanatic in the White House... no sane man would want that.

    No the Ukrainian opposition needs to make a deal with Russia instead of acting like spoilt brats. That they had to be told by the Poles that they should sign the present deal or expect to die.. shows how little sense of reality they have. They have no military backing internally and half the country wants to cede... so come on.. wake the hell up. To save face they need to hold a referendum in Crimea and areas to the east and let the people vote for what country they want to be part off. It is the only way out.
    It's devoid of facts to claim that half the Ukraine wants to secede.

  2. #102
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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This is such a load of garbage.

    Almost nobody supported unilateral action against Syria because the evidence was so flimsy.

    Very few liberals on here supported any action based on the alleged gas attack.
    That evidence is not in question. It was a rocket never used by rebels fired from deep within Assad's premiere base. There is absolutely no chance that rebels infilatrated the base, set up and fired rockets, and escaped WITHOUT NOTICE. Further, the US claimed photo evidence of the chemicals being extracted from Assad's containment facility and transported to the base, with Assad officers on the scene, again WITHOUT A FIGHT.

    Denying Assad gassed Damascus is like being a truther.

  3. #103
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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    It's devoid of facts to claim that half the Ukraine wants to secede.
    Actually.. not according to the last presidential vote and based on the areas where Russian is the primary language.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    Apache calls neo-cons former liberals who switched to the GOP side.

    With faulty intelligence from the last administration.


    One of those liberals supporting Obama's war drums in Syria you speak of is
    GOP Rep. Tom Cotton from Arkansas, currently leading Sen. Pryor .
    You just proved my point.

  5. #105
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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Most countries have aspects that is a "civil war in the making".. even the US and UK.
    The US and UK have the potential but not, as many aspects, as the Ukraine with it's heavily Russian populated, eastern area of Crimea. The Ukraine has already overthrown it's current government in Kiev and is in dire financial straits. We don't have that criteria met quite yet in the US/UK.


    Not really, there is no cross religious aspect in this and the winner is a given.. Russia.

    It is easy to predict. Any country near Ukraine wont get involved because they dont want to piss off the Russians, and the US and western allies can shout at the moon as much as they want, but they have a massive logistics problem if they want aid any Ukrainian movement. The Russians control the Black Sea and the countries around the Ukraine wont allow transit.. so forget it.

    Plus why do we care? Yes the Ukraine has the potential of being the breadbasket of the planet but other than that.. why do we care? Russia is going to do what they want, they have the money and willpower and unless you want a global war over this.. then there is not much we can do.

    And lets not forget in most cases we have the choice between a Russian mafia puppet that is utterly corrupt or an Ukrainian dictator that might be more friendly towards the west, but will be just as corrupt. Remember the Orange revolution? Well they won, and the people who took over were later thrown in jail for... massive corruption... and now we have the same scenario.

    We best keep out of this mess if you ask me.
    I agree with this 100%. It's a big loser all the way around for the West. All our meddling in the ME and Arab Spring has brought about is a royal mess.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This is such a load of garbage.

    Almost nobody supported unilateral action against Syria because the evidence was so flimsy.

    Very few liberals on here supported any action based on the alleged gas attack.
    It wasn't 'very few' (nor was it 'every' whichis why I said the "long line" of liberals)...and do you doubt for a second had Obama decide to actually act, that the vast majority would not fall in lock stip in support of his actions?

    Because...if you doubt it we can have discussion of the liberals that were losing their mind over Bush's use of the Patriot Act and that are now either silent or supportive fo the continued expansive use of government surveillance.

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    I'm with PeteEU. There are no heroes in this episode, not the EU which pushed an ultimatum on Ukraine, not Russia for obvious reasons, not the former Ukrainian regime, not the extremist opposition. I don't see what the US has to gain from getting more involved beyond supplying humanitarian aid.

    I think we've taken it for granted that with the end of the Cold War that was the end of Russia as a global power; I was certainly guilty of this. But history does not just end, and just looking at a map it is obvious why Russia would concern itself with events in the Ukraine. As it's been pointed out Crimea was part of Russia and was almost arbitrarily incorporated into Ukraine during the Soviet Union when Moscow had control over it anyway, and it remains a base of operations for the Russian military. Are we supposed to deny Russia any influence over a country with such strong ties to it?

    Just as we would be incensed with Russia meddling with our neighbors, as it did during the Cuban Missile Crisis, Russia is justified to be weary of being encircled by unfriendly countries. This is not East Germany, this is Ukraine, right on its border. I for one don't see why, if the country is really so divided, it shouldn't be partitioned to let its East and West follow their own paths, but that should be up to the Ukrainians.

    Just ask what we should hope to gain by meeting force with force? Does the US really care to have the Ukraine in its sphere of influence? If so, is it worth going toe to toe with a nuclear power? If we think there are any easy answers here we are wrong. It is best to err on the side of caution.
    "Obamacare delenda est"

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    The US and UK have the potential but not, as many aspects, as the Ukraine with it's heavily Russian populated, eastern area of Crimea. .
    It is more than that..



    That is the language issue...

    And the last election



    The blue areas are the areas voting for the guy that just got kicked out and the yellow areas are for the woman that just got released from jail.

    The previous election in 2004..



    Blue areas for the guy who just got kicked out I believe (pro Russian)..

    See the pattern?
    PeteEU

  9. #109
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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    And the EU would use its gas reserves and freeze the oligarchs assets. It certainly would not be easy to take over Ukraine. And there are a few regions in Russia that would take the opportunity to cause trouble.
    You greatly underestimate the weakness of the EU.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    You just proved my point.
    So you support GOP Conservatives who are running for the Senate,
    such as Rep. Tom Cotton in Arkansas, who supported bombing Syria?

    You do know that Cotton is a rising GOP star who served in the Military ?
    Physics is Phun

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