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Thread: Obama Launches ‘My Brother’s Keeper’ to Help young Minority Men.....

  1. #61
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    Re: Obama Launches ‘My Brother’s Keeper’ to Help young Minority Men.....

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    I'm not seeing that. It's about teaching the kids not to make the same mistakes that are being made all around them. Showing them there are different answers than the ones their parents and neighbors chose. Giving them more options and teaching them how to choose successfully and consciously, not just by default.
    I see that is the goal, and I've said it is an honorable one. However, it's like the bull so many students are told about getting higher education. So they do, they incur outrageous amounts of debt to do so, get out and can't find a job that pays more than $12/hr because the reality is that the $60K they paid for a bachelors was only worth $4 hour more than a high school education. So I fear the same thing will happen here. They may get "proper" life instruction, but upon application, real life will hit them in the face and they'll find that the "old" ways were more effective in assuring their overall financial and personal "value".

    I personally know a man right now, 56 yo, white, jewish, struggling everyday not to commit suicide because he did everything right, and yet can't find a job to save his ass. His savings is long gone, his unemployment insurance ended, and because there are grads in his field who have no choice but to work for $12 an hour have squeezed him right out of the market. Working at Walmart won't come close to paying his bills so he's going to give up. He's got the date all planned.

    Now if the economy is hitting this man who was never previously unemployed, had the education, the proper values taught to him, and lived a period of his life with those choices having paid off, is now at his wits end because it's all gone and it's turned out to be all lies....

    I don't see how we're going to be able to keep young men or women of any color, who have seen the "success" of the wrong way of life, remaining willing to embrace the "failures" of the right way of life.
    jallman: "It's all good. At least you have a thick skin and can take being poked fun back at without crying. "

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    Re: Obama Launches ‘My Brother’s Keeper’ to Help young Minority Men.....

    You have not repeated your opinion in any post in this thread.
    Where would those posts be located that you refer to?
    Did you refer to ALL Republicans with making politics out of Benghazi andIRS?
    Cons have just as much a right to call LIBs out for this as you do .
    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    And yours is equally out of line, as I've already stated that fact in numerous posts. The conversation between DN is off on a tangent. Apparently you're reacting before reading.
    Physics is Phun

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    Re: Obama Launches ‘My Brother’s Keeper’ to Help young Minority Men.....

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    It most certainly is.
    Poor white kids should have been 'included' by the 'unifier'.
    Without an awesome GOP Gov. Ogilvie of IL in 1971 and his tution grant for chem/physics/math teachers in which there was a shortage,
    I would have not been able to go to College.

    I was lucky my 'white' Dad was in the service, though as an NCO with four kids and starting from zero, we were still poor.
    Dad was able to sign for Federal loans with low rates for boarding so I could go to a 4-year college and have the 'rich' experience .

    Accusing someone of being okay with extreme opportunity iinequality is once again out-of-line.
    I have never seen anything from him like that.
    How about you ?
    I've said before and I'll say one more time just for you. The project should include ALL impoverished youth. I've never said otherwise.

    That said, to suggest that white young men face the same degree of hardship as black and latino young men is to be entirely foolish. So I'm also never going to forget about that during discussions.
    jallman: "It's all good. At least you have a thick skin and can take being poked fun back at without crying. "

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    Re: Obama Launches ‘My Brother’s Keeper’ to Help young Minority Men.....

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I think it's a wonderful thing. Young black men need all the help they can muster to get them out of their inner-city jungles and into mainstream society. I love the name. Don't know why this didn't happen years ago.
    All underprivileged children need a boost, all of them.
    Saying that only kids of color are lacking behind is the most bigoted thing that has come out of this President's mouth yet.

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    Re: Obama Launches ‘My Brother’s Keeper’ to Help young Minority Men.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    On the other hand conservatives are always complaining about the cycle of non-participating fathers in the minority communities, then complain and bitch when someone tries to do something about it. I could understand if you came in and discussed the program not being a good idea, but you're not doing that, you're just doing your usual government bashing.

    Now I don't think the program will be very good, in that it seems many of the existing youth programs started whether started by politicians or private entities have proven to be very useful, and instead seem to end up being part of the problem. Even the well intended community service does more to expose trouble children to comrades than to dissuade further criminality.

    I should finish by assuring everyone, I have no good ideas as to a solution. I fear that so long as corruption is the basis of humanity, which seems to be true regardless of good intent all our entities seem to have some level of corruption from corporations to unions to government to churches to ...., there is no solution to many of our problems, this being one of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    Truth be told, it shouldn't be white, black, brown, or red, it should simply be "disadvantaged". I'm wondering now if in fact it is worded that way and the media is just connecting that to a mostly non-white contingent. I'm going to go back as see if this might be so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    Regardless of government, it shouldn't be a racially exclusionary program. See that's where we agree. Honestly, it's not the "government" part that's the problem, right? If there is a successful program, then I don't care who runs it, right? You care obviously more about who's running it than that it's racially exclusionary. I think that's backward.

    And either way, private or government, these programs seem to fail to work. Without some semblance of true opportunity equality, all these programs do is slap pinkie bandages on gaping wounds.
    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    You have not repeated your opinion in any post in this thread.
    Where would those posts be located that you refer to?
    Did you refer to ALL Republicans with making politics out of Benghazi andIRS?
    Cons have just as much a right to call LIBs out for this as you do .
    Enjoy your crow. And I can't be too much of a raging lib when I'm pro-gun/hunting, eat meat & potatoes, and am against immigration (though I admit to being against it from a liberal pov of "no more immigrants til we can take care of the citizens we already have"). But feel free to choose me as your attackee du jour.
    jallman: "It's all good. At least you have a thick skin and can take being poked fun back at without crying. "

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    Re: Obama Launches ‘My Brother’s Keeper’ to Help young Minority Men.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    You keep saying that getting out of poverty and racial inequality is simply a matter of personal responsibility, are you not? Am I missing something?
    I believe so.
    I'm saying that the sort of life one has depends on personal choices, not that a person born into poverty has the same opportunities as anyone else. The way to escape poverty is through making the right choices. Blaming racial inequality or circumstances of birth on having a miserable life is not the way to have a better one. To break the cycle of poverty, one has to make better choices in life. Having a mentor to guide those choices is a positive thing, don't get me wrong, but the choices have to be made by the individual.

    And, while most people born into poverty don't escape it, many do. Those who do make different choices than those who don't.

    I personally know a man who was born into the worst sort of poverty: No father in the home, mom an alcoholic, basically raised himself, and yet, he served in WWII, flew the big planes, was shot down and was a POW, came home, joined the workforce, married, raised three kids, and had a successful middle class life. I asked him once, basically in tactful terms, how he turned out so well when life dealt him such a ****ty hand. "I saw the good, and I saw the bad," he told me, "and I chose the good." That pretty much sums up how you have a successful life.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Obama Launches ‘My Brother’s Keeper’ to Help young Minority Men.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    I believe so.
    I'm saying that the sort of life one has depends on personal choices, not that a person born into poverty has the same opportunities as anyone else. The way to escape poverty is through making the right choices. Blaming racial inequality or circumstances of birth on having a miserable life is not the way to have a better one. To break the cycle of poverty, one has to make better choices in life. Having a mentor to guide those choices is a positive thing, don't get me wrong, but the choices have to be made by the individual.

    And, while most people born into poverty don't escape it, many do. Those who do make different choices than those who don't.

    I personally know a man who was born into the worst sort of poverty: No father in the home, mom an alcoholic, basically raised himself, and yet, he served in WWII, flew the big planes, was shot down and was a POW, came home, joined the workforce, married, raised three kids, and had a successful middle class life. I asked him once, basically in tactful terms, how he turned out so well when life dealt him such a ****ty hand. "I saw the good, and I saw the bad," he told me, "and I chose the good." That pretty much sums up how you have a successful life.
    So, it's not just personal choices but personal choices can always solve the problem? That seems contradictory.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Obama Launches ‘My Brother’s Keeper’ to Help young Minority Men.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    I believe so.
    I'm saying that the sort of life one has depends on personal choices, not that a person born into poverty has the same opportunities as anyone else. The way to escape poverty is through making the right choices. Blaming racial inequality or circumstances of birth on having a miserable life is not the way to have a better one. To break the cycle of poverty, one has to make better choices in life. Having a mentor to guide those choices is a positive thing, don't get me wrong, but the choices have to be made by the individual.

    And, while most people born into poverty don't escape it, many do. Those who do make different choices than those who don't.

    I personally know a man who was born into the worst sort of poverty: No father in the home, mom an alcoholic, basically raised himself, and yet, he served in WWII, flew the big planes, was shot down and was a POW, came home, joined the workforce, married, raised three kids, and had a successful middle class life. I asked him once, basically in tactful terms, how he turned out so well when life dealt him such a ****ty hand. "I saw the good, and I saw the bad," he told me, "and I chose the good." That pretty much sums up how you have a successful life.
    If your supposition were true that all that really matters is personal choices, then no matter where one chooses to live, we'd have the same levels of crime, of educational attainment, of homelessness, of financial success. There wouldn't be any appreciable differences in the levels of success between New York City and the Mississippi Delta.

    In other words, it's naive to pretend that economic, social, and cultural factors outside the control of any one individual somehow do not have a definite - and sometimes crucial - effect on one's life, and on the decisions one makes.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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    Re: Obama Launches ‘My Brother’s Keeper’ to Help young Minority Men.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    If your supposition were true that all that really matters is personal choices, then no matter where one chooses to live, we'd have the same levels of crime, of educational attainment, of homelessness, of financial success. There wouldn't be any appreciable differences in the levels of success between New York City and the Mississippi Delta.

    In other words, it's naive to pretend that economic, social, and cultural factors outside the control of any one individual somehow do not have a definite - and sometimes crucial - effect on one's life, and on the decisions one makes.
    The trouble with libertarians is that they tend to conflate "anyone can succeed" with "everyone can succeed." Trying to explain to them how dumb that is doesn't seem to work.

    Give anyone in this thread a big reset button on life, dump them in the middle of Somalia with nothing but the clothes on their backs. Figure out pretty damn fast that circumstances matter.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  10. #70
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    Re: Obama Launches ‘My Brother’s Keeper’ to Help young Minority Men.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    I believe so.
    I'm saying that the sort of life one has depends on personal choices, not that a person born into poverty has the same opportunities as anyone else. The way to escape poverty is through making the right choices. Blaming racial inequality or circumstances of birth on having a miserable life is not the way to have a better one. To break the cycle of poverty, one has to make better choices in life. Having a mentor to guide those choices is a positive thing, don't get me wrong, but the choices have to be made by the individual.

    And, while most people born into poverty don't escape it, many do. Those who do make different choices than those who don't.

    I personally know a man who was born into the worst sort of poverty: No father in the home, mom an alcoholic, basically raised himself, and yet, he served in WWII, flew the big planes, was shot down and was a POW, came home, joined the workforce, married, raised three kids, and had a successful middle class life. I asked him once, basically in tactful terms, how he turned out so well when life dealt him such a ****ty hand. "I saw the good, and I saw the bad," he told me, "and I chose the good." That pretty much sums up how you have a successful life.
    Obviously blaming others doesn't solve anything immediately, however ignoring the facts of our oligarchy is equally stupid. We must be aware in order to change and in awareness, blame on the economy is obvious. No doubt some can overcome, but many more will try only to be squashed. Making the right choices no longer means anything. So many have made the right choices and are now having their pensions and HC bankruptcied away, their savings obliterated due to medical issues that until recently were disallowed by insurance for whatever lame reasons, and those are just the 50-somethings and above. The youth, even middle class youth, are finding that doing the right thing ended them with outrageous debt and little chance of jobs to pay that debt or live a quality life....

    My point is that making the right choices means very little these days in this corporate owned subsidiary called the USA.
    jallman: "It's all good. At least you have a thick skin and can take being poked fun back at without crying. "

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