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Thread: Acidic ocean blamed for scallop die-off

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    Re: Acidic ocean blamed for scallop die-off

    A full point lowering means that the ocean water is TEN times more acidic.
    Since pH is based on a logarithmic scale as: pH = -Log[H+]
    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    I never worried about this issue, just figured all we're doing is putting all that carbon back where it came from anyway, but a full point on the pH scale? Who knows what that means.
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    Re: Acidic ocean blamed for scallop die-off

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    No they can't. Jet stream has nothing to do with it, and glaciers are generally alkaline. Ocean acidification is due to an increase in CO2 absorption.
    The jet stream is a fast moving air current that drags weather systems in its wake and since CO2 rises up into the atmosphere it stands to reason the jet stream would have a direct effect on CO2. The jet stream can have a direct effect the weather, wind velocities, storm size, patterns and duration, and even force warm air over the Artic and cold air over Georgia. It can also influence ocean currents, including the Gulf Stream and churn up cold water and CO2 from the bottom mixing it up with the warm water at the surface changing the temperature and PH of the oceans. So I'm inclined to disagree with you, the jet stream has a lot to do with it.

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    Re: Acidic ocean blamed for scallop die-off

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    10 million scallops that died in the waters off Vancouver Island were the victims of a falling pH. level in the ocean. The pH. has fallen a full point, from 8.2 to 7.2 and the more acidic water means the shellfish can't properly form shells.

    Acidic water blamed for West Coast scallop die-off

    "Oyster die-offs in Washington state and Oregon dating back a decade have also been linked by National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration researchers to acidification and rising carbon dioxide levels."
    Well, even the alarmists claim CO2 levels will only make a much smaller decrease.

    Something else is the causer. Not CO2.

    Natural changes perhaps?

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    Re: Acidic ocean blamed for scallop die-off

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    The jet stream is a fast moving air current that drags weather systems in its wake and since CO2 rises up into the atmosphere it stands to reason the jet stream would have a direct effect on CO2. The jet stream can have a direct effect the weather, wind velocities, storm size, patterns and duration, and even force warm air over the Artic and cold air over Georgia. It can also influence ocean currents, including the Gulf Stream and churn up cold water and CO2 from the bottom mixing it up with the warm water at the surface changing the temperature and PH of the oceans. So I'm inclined to disagree with you, the jet stream has a lot to do with it.
    You have some sort of evidence that a breeze 10km above sea level can pull cold water and dead plankton up?
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    Re: Acidic ocean blamed for scallop die-off

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    No they can't. Jet stream has nothing to do with it, and glaciers are generally alkaline. Ocean acidification is due to an increase in CO2 absorption.
    But not that much.

    A full 1 point on the pH scale is a factor of 10.

    This is probably some natural cyclical change, or from the aerosols traveling the jet steam from Asia.

    Alarmist, choose your thoughts wisely. It is impossible that CO2 is the cause of a 1 pH change!

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    Re: Acidic ocean blamed for scallop die-off

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    But not that much.

    A full 1 point on the pH scale is a factor of 10.

    This is probably some natural cyclical change, or from the aerosols traveling the jet steam from Asia.

    Alarmist, choose your thoughts wisely. It is impossible that CO2 is the cause of a 1 pH change!

    CO2 can easily cause a pH change of one, depending on how much of it is dissolved in the water.

    The pH of tap and distilled water is generally between 5-6 boil that same water to remove dissolved gases and the pH will rise as the CO2 leaves the water. Recall that pure water with no dissolved gases will have a pH of 7

    So yes if the atmosphere has higher CO2 levels, and the ocean is absorbing it (which it will) the pH of the ocean will drop as a result. That of course does not excluded other factors in the pH drop (an increase or decrease in other ions in the water)

    I will say I was surprised that oceanic pH was at 8, I had thought it would have been slightly acidic rather then basic in nature
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    Re: Acidic ocean blamed for scallop die-off

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    But not that much.

    A full 1 point on the pH scale is a factor of 10.

    This is probably some natural cyclical change, or from the aerosols traveling the jet steam from Asia.

    Alarmist, choose your thoughts wisely. It is impossible that CO2 is the cause of a 1 pH change!
    Is there math behind this? Chemistry wasn't my strong subject.
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    Re: Acidic ocean blamed for scallop die-off

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    CO2 can easily cause a pH change of one, depending on how much of it is dissolved in the water.

    The pH of tap and distilled water is generally between 5-6 boil that same water to remove dissolved gases and the pH will rise as the CO2 leaves the water. Recall that pure water with no dissolved gases will have a pH of 7

    So yes if the atmosphere has higher CO2 levels, and the ocean is absorbing it (which it will) the pH of the ocean will drop as a result. That of course does not excluded other factors in the pH drop (an increase or decrease in other ions in the water)

    I will say I was surprised that oceanic pH was at 8, I had thought it would have been slightly acidic rather then basic in nature
    Sorry, but something other than Co2 is causing that sharp of a pH decrease.

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    Re: Acidic ocean blamed for scallop die-off

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    Well, even the alarmists claim CO2 levels will only make a much smaller decrease.

    Something else is the causer. Not CO2.

    Natural changes perhaps?
    No, apparently all the anthropogenic CO2 from all over the world is concentrating in the waters off the coast of Washington state.
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    Re: Acidic ocean blamed for scallop die-off

    To edit, 'p' means ' -Log ' in Chemistry.
    pH = the negative log of the Hydronium/Hydogen ion concentration, as I showed in #11.
    Something caused the Hydrogen ion concentration to increase OR the Hydoxide ion concentration to decrease or both.
    The 'product' of the two conc. is a constant, 1.0 x 10-14.
    pH + pOH add to 14, showing their inverse relation in another math way.

    This 7.2 pH is now slightly less than our blood--at 7.4--but above natural rainfall--at 6.5--just below neutral at 7.
    Conc. is measured in MOLES of Hydrogen ion per liter of solution,
    with moles coming from mass in grams divided by molar mass, which comes from the Periodic table.

    There are probably several hypotheses just hitting the table of investigation.

    'Addendum'
    The 6 or 7 in pH readings is not a "significant figure", since they are exponential place-holders.
    A Hydrogen ion concentration of 0.000 0010, or 1.0 x 10 -6 , yields a pH of 6.00.
    pH of 7.00 comes from 1.0 x 10 -7 .
    The concentration of Hydrogen ion is TEN times less at 7.00 vs. 6.00 .

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Is there math behind this? Chemistry wasn't my strong subject.
    Last edited by NIMBY; 02-27-14 at 02:43 PM.
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