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Thread: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    I think Jan Brewer did the right thing. Laws making it legal to discriminate on judgements which are not necessarily affecting businesses quite easily blow up in the faces of legislators that pass them.

    A law like this or any law resembling it would cause more trouble than it would fix.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 02-26-14 at 11:16 PM.
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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by tech30528 View Post
    Georgia is considering a similar law. Hopefully it gets shot down here too. There is a vegan caterer I want to hire to cater our next distance shooting clinic. It is a 3 day event held on a working dairy farm. They would basicly be providing the sides since we bring our own grills and smokers for the wild game. I think the caterer is gay too.
    Geeez That is NOT the stereotypical conservative image..... Probably those who should notice will not notice.

    Thom Paine
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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    I've already established that the above isn't happening. They are not required under the law to personally provide a service to anyone, but the business is.
    What entity owns a business? People. So therefore people are forced to ________. See, it's easy if you understand logic.

    You just have to stop bull****ting for a second and realize that people are people no matter what they are doing and what they own. It is however cute that people think they can declare someones right to property void. lol.

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    You're doing it backwards again. Why do you think government power comes before the rights of the people? Is there some sort of reason you do this in every anti-discrimination thread you post in?
    Oh lawd, didn't you learn your lesson the last beating I gave you? Here's the thing: Government power is established by the people to live and abide by. If you don't like the laws the people have come up with in order to live a better society, may I suggest you piss off back into your basement? KThanks.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    this is where the magic of reality happens that people don't get

    they can refuse service, as this is not a crime, as long as its not discrimination based on age, disability, origin, race/color, gender, religion or in some cases sexual orientation

    if west baptist is a recognized religion in thier state, county or municipality then they CAN NOT deny service based on religion because that would be ILLEGAL discrimination

    now you mentioned my OPINION
    my opinion is, that sucks and i dont like it but it is the law and thats how rights work they protect us all

    same reasons they can protest outside of funerals for dead soldiers who were killed in action but who were gay and they have signs saying your son is buring in hell

    its ugly and i want to punch them in the face but they have the same rights as all of us.

    but lets talk about the real world for a second

    illegal discrimination happens everyday, people just HIDE it lol

    that baker and photographer got in trouble because they were stupid enough to say YES i don't want to do it because its GAY

    the smart thing to do, ignorant but smart, would have to simply call back later and say damn i overbooked that date or my partner didn't have the schedule updated we don't have the man power to shoot your wedding etc etc

    these people are getting in trouble because they are basically doing the PC version of "get out of here faggots god hates you"


    also i dont know about the photographer but the baker did non religious weddings and JEWISH events so thier bigotry and hypocrisy was proven.
    now this is just an example but its its very stupid to have jewish events and non religious events like bachelorette parties with penis on a cake in your records and then say nooooooooo because of our christian beliefs i cant do the gay wedding.

    nobody buys that bull**** lol and in those two cases it was illegal


    but back to your question because i dont want you to think i dodged it, the same applies, the print shop CAN NOT illegally discriminate, they can lie but if they say, we hate that RELIGION we will not do that, then they are BREAKING the law.
    They could refuse to do it because "They don't want their business to be associated with that kind of unsavory language."
    If you strike me down, I'll become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Sababa View Post
    NO they will not. We know this because churches are not forced to perform interracial marriage. Or marriages of people outside their faith. This is a dumb argument.
    Good rule of thumb here is to never trust a liberal.

    Ted Kennedy, one of the main sponsors of the 1965 Immigration Reform spoke the following:

    "First, our cities will not be flooded with a million immigrants annually. Under the proposed bill, the present level of immigration remains substantially the same.... Secondly, the ethnic mix of this country will not be upset.... Contrary to the charges in some quarters, [the bill] will not inundate America with immigrants from any one country or area, or the most populated and deprived nations of Africa and Asia.... In the final analysis, the ethnic pattern of immigration under the proposed measure is not expected to change as sharply as the critics seem to think.... The bill will not flood our cities with immigrants. It will not upset the ethnic mix of our society. It will not relax the standards of admission. It will not cause American workers to lose their jobs."

    Senator Hubert Humphrey speaking in favor of the Civil Rights Act of 1964:

    ". . . declared that if anyone could find in the law 'any language which provides that an employer will have to hire on the basis of percentage or quota . . ., I will start eating the pages one after another, because it is not in there.'"

    Back in 1989 the backers of a Mass. anti-discrimination law specifically noted that it "does not legalize 'gay marriage' or confer any right on homosexual, lesbian or unmarried heterosexual couples to 'domestic benefits.' Nor does passage of the bill put Massachusetts on a 'slippery slope' toward such rights." However, it was the very existence of these reforms which the New Jersey Supreme Court relied on to justify their ruling in favor of homosexual "marriage"

    In addressing plaintiffs' claimed interest in equality of treatment, we begin with a retrospective look at the evolving expansion of rights to gays and lesbians in this State. Today, in New Jersey, it is just as unlawful to discriminate against individuals on the basis of sexual orientation as it is to discriminate against them on the basis of race, national origin, age, or sex. Over the last three decades, through judicial decisions and comprehensive legislative enactments, this State, step by step, has protected gay and lesbian individuals from discrimination on account of their sexual orientation.

    And now, knowing the love that liberals have for pushing the legal notion of foreign precedent to be applicable to US jurisprudence, we see the following:

    Britainís most famous surrogate gay dads have hired lawyers to sue the Church of England for the right to a full-blown religious wedding.

    Barrie and Tony Drewitt-Barlow told Gay Star News it was important for them as Christians to marry in church and for their kids to see they were equal.

    So when you see a liberal promising you something, run the other way, because like the Terminator, they will never stop, promises are just stalling tactics to get you to drop your guard so that they can further strip you of your human rights.

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Oh lawd, didn't you learn your lesson the last beating I gave you? Here's the thing: Government power is established by the people to live and abide by. If you don't like the laws the people have come up with in order to live a better society, may I suggest you piss off back into your basement? KThanks.
    Aww..what's wrong? You don't want to face up to the fact you argue law backwards? Too bad, you do. Get used to it or stop doing it. People come first, not government. Don't like it? Don't care.

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    What entity owns a business? People. So therefore people are forced to ________. See, it's easy if you understand logic. You just have to stop bull****ting for a second and realize that people are people no matter what they are doing and what they own.
    Actually, you have to cut the bs and acknowledge that, under the law, a business is not entitled to a freedom of religion and the owner's rights under the law extend only to their own person and not to the business. There are different kinds of businesses for this reason. If you want a business which can legally discriminate then either start a non-profit or a private membership.

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by tech30528 View Post
    Georgia is considering a similar law. Hopefully it gets shot down here too. There is a vegan caterer I want to hire to cater our next distance shooting clinic. It is a 3 day event held on a working dairy farm. They would basicly be providing the sides since we bring our own grills and smokers for the wild game. I think the caterer is gay too.
    A gay Vegan? The hell you say!

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Thom Paine View Post
    I'm wondering if this latest dust up over Az. is actually based in maybe a somewhat reasonable concern about laws forcing religions to perform against their tenets ala the ACA requiring Catholic orgs. to furnish insurance in opposition to their beliefs.

    Just wondering out loud

    Thom Paine
    its not the last for sure, equal rights is winning and that scares people. They are getting desperate and now things they were getting away with that they never had the right to do are ending they are trying to make them law but when given the test of constitutionality and equal rights not special rights its fails.

    all these same claims were made against minorities, womens rights and interracial marriage. They all failed. People thinking some how they are new and logical now are severely mistaken.


    we all work by the same laws and ruls in the public realm, the laws and rules apply to us ALL, religion doesnt change that.

    now in the religious realm, church, thats the top dog, if a CHURCH doesnt want me then thats that. But the church can come outside of that realm and claim religious rights because those rights end at my rights.


    this is why if you were gay st marys hospital cant deny you treatment in the ER because they think you are evil and fixing you would be condoning gay
    if you were married and Jewish st marys hospital cant deny you should visitation rights because that would be supporting your marriage by another religion
    etc etc etc

    the rules in the public realm apply to use all and public access business are that realm even though thier ownership is private.

    These people want special rights and its failing overall.

    as a christian myself i cant even imagine what makes them think they get to force thier religion or views on others

    now im sure at at some time in the future someone might try to abuse this, or probably have already tried, we simply rely on the law if this happens.

    everybody has the same rights you cant be discriminated against based on age, gender, religion, race etc

    im happy for those rights and i dont take them for granted.

    what these people should do is what i so, thank thier god they live in such a great country that allows the to have the god of thier choosing.
    if those rights didnt exist, the ones they want to take away that could change real fast.

    some Christians are over confident since its the majority religion luckily most are no and more educated than that
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