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Thread: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) this already exists its in the constitution but if the conspiracy theorist need that id gladly put it in there i have ZERO problem with it because if it was ever tries id fight against it just as hard as i fight for equal rights..

    the "church" has ever single right to discriminate because religious marriage has nothing to do with legal marriage.

    2.)the fear is nonsensical and should exist but id gladly do it

    3.) thats good, im christian and totally support equal rights because it has nothing to do with anything religious that matters in regard to rights, freedom , country and liberty
    I'm wondering if this latest dust up over Az. is actually based in maybe a somewhat reasonable concern about laws forcing religions to perform against their tenets ala the ACA requiring Catholic orgs. to furnish insurance in opposition to their beliefs.

    Just wondering out loud

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Are you implying that a homosexual in a print shop wouldn't do what he could to aid a fellow Democratic organization like the Westboro Baptist Church?
    LOL!

    Silly boy. You so funny.

    Keep 'em coming.

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    the scenario is legal and lawful

    theres no illegal discrimination in the scenario

    the laws are the same for us all
    Yeah, I know; but is it fitting and proper to legally require someone subject himself in that situation.

    Recently read an Op-Ed suggesting PC has replaced common sense... possibly so ??

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    I really can't speak to New Mexico or to Oregon and while I agree with what you say about religion I don't think that this particular bill was the best way to go about things.

    In America the freedom of religion is pretty much the whole reason we have this nation and it's the first facet of liberty addressed in the first Amendment. If it were up to me and I were writing a bill such as this for Arizona that's where I'd start. The bill would be short and to the point. Something along the lines of "The right to freely exercise ones religious beliefs is a fundamental right of the citizens of this nation and of this State. No individual or entity conducting lawful business in the state shall be compelled to provide services, accept an engagement or otherwise accommodate a customer who has not paid for said service if doing so violates the owners conscience or religious belief."
    Good luck not violating the commerce clause, the Civil Rights Act as well as a myriad of court cases.
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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    What is your position on what that one AZ Senator said?

    (I do not remember the exact verbiage but it went something like this.)

    "It's a doubled-edged sword. What if a gay/lesbian print shop got an order from Westboro Baptist to print up "God Hates Fags," placards? Should the law mandate that they have to do it?"
    this is where the magic of reality happens that people don't get

    they can refuse service, as this is not a crime, as long as its not discrimination based on age, disability, origin, race/color, gender, religion or in some cases sexual orientation

    if west baptist is a recognized religion in thier state, county or municipality then they CAN NOT deny service based on religion because that would be ILLEGAL discrimination

    now you mentioned my OPINION
    my opinion is, that sucks and i dont like it but it is the law and thats how rights work they protect us all

    same reasons they can protest outside of funerals for dead soldiers who were killed in action but who were gay and they have signs saying your son is buring in hell

    its ugly and i want to punch them in the face but they have the same rights as all of us.

    but lets talk about the real world for a second

    illegal discrimination happens everyday, people just HIDE it lol

    that baker and photographer got in trouble because they were stupid enough to say YES i don't want to do it because its GAY

    the smart thing to do, ignorant but smart, would have been to simply call back later and say damn i overbooked that date or my partner didn't have the schedule updated we don't have the man power to shoot your wedding etc etc

    these people are getting in trouble because they are basically doing the PC version of "get out of here faggots god hates you"


    also i dont know about the photographer but the baker did non religious weddings and JEWISH events so thier bigotry and hypocrisy was proven.
    now this is just an example but its its very stupid to have jewish events and non religious events like bachelorette parties with penis on a cake in your records and then say nooooooooo because of our christian beliefs i cant do the gay wedding.

    nobody buys that bull**** lol and in those two cases it was illegal


    but back to your question because i dont want you to think i dodged it, the same applies, the print shop CAN NOT illegally discriminate, they can lie but if they say, we hate that RELIGION we will not do that, then they are BREAKING the law.
    Last edited by AGENT J; 02-26-14 at 11:29 PM.
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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Georgia is considering a similar law. Hopefully it gets shot down here too. There is a vegan caterer I want to hire to cater our next distance shooting clinic. It is a 3 day event held on a working dairy farm. They would basicly be providing the sides since we bring our own grills and smokers for the wild game. I think the caterer is gay too.

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    The owner of a business is already protected so what you are really asking for it is to declare businesses persons and grant them the enumerated rights in the Constitution.
    When a person creates something...a service, that is an extention of themselves. What’s at stake in this context is when individuals who provide material and artistic craft for weddings are then forced to take their talents and their creative abilities and use them for purposes that go against their consciences To force them to create something that is against their being is denying them their right of conscience which cuts at the heart of our religious freedom.

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Is this another thread where the pro private sector anti-discrimination law supporters can't muster up a defense? I haven't read the thread yet, but if there is a defense can someone tell me the post number. Thanks. It's just that it gets a bit boring reading through a thread where one side can't do jack**** and yet declares victory the entire time.

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Good luck not violating the commerce clause, the Civil Rights Act as well as a myriad of court cases.
    You're doing it backwards again. Why do you think government power comes before the rights of the people? Is there some sort of reason you do this in every anti-discrimination thread you post in?

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    When a person creates something...a service, that is an extention of themselves. What’s at stake in this context is when individuals who provide material and artistic craft for weddings are then forced to take their talents and their creative abilities and use them for purposes that go against their consciences To force them to create something that is against their being is denying them their right of conscience which cuts at the heart of our religious freedom.
    I've already established that the above isn't happening. They are not required under the law to personally provide a service to anyone, but the business is. If they do not want to personally provide the service then, as the owners of an unincorporated business, they must hire someone who will.

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