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Thread: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by DashingAmerican View Post
    I have to admit, I'm torn on this one. On one hand, I think businesses should have the right to refuse on any basis, on the other hand, if we allow people to refuse service because of religion, where does it stop?
    With you not buying from businesses that discriminate. You cannot legitimately use government force when the rights of others are not infringed upon. And in the general sense, denial of services doesn't innately infringe upon the rights of others. Yes, I do know there are specific situations in which it can and in those instances we can use government force, but things like a cupcake or something? No, those involve no rights since you do not have right to another's property or labor.

    Consumer force, however, may be used. You can't use the government but that doesn't mean you are out of options. Businesses must have profit to survive and you can engage in educated consumerism to influence that. Don't like businesses that discriminate? Don't buy from them. Boycott and protest if you want. But this presumption of ownership over other people's property and labor is unreasonable.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Paperview View Post
    It's like we're in some weird 1950's time warp.

    You guys are unbelievable.
    The true nature of Libertarianism has been unmasked. They consider a violation of a theoretical "right" (free association AKA the right to discriminate) more significant than the actual harm and loss of rights that many people will experience from protecting that "right."

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    of course YOU dont LMAO this further helps prove the facts i already listed

    lets just ignore the the facts, rights, the law and court cases/precedence and the 14th and civil rights that all come together and establish this stuff in favor of your opinion. LMAO
    no thanks

    facts win again
    Yeah, you typed a lot, but I see no rights that these laws protect. Good to know you still can't find a human right that gives people rights over other peoples property, labor, service, and association.

  4. #654
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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    With you not buying from businesses that discriminate. You cannot legitimately use government force when the rights of others are not infringed upon. And in the general sense, denial of services doesn't innately infringe upon the rights of others. Yes, I do know there are specific situations in which it can and in those instances we can use government force, but things like a cupcake or something? No, those involve no rights since you do not have right to another's property or labor.

    Consumer force, however, may be used. You can't use the government but that doesn't mean you are out of options. Businesses must have profit to survive and you can engage in educated consumerism to influence that. Don't like businesses that discriminate? Don't buy from them. Boycott and protest if you want. But this presumption of ownership over other people's property and labor is unreasonable.
    I am comfortable with infringing on your supposed right to deny service to blacks, the Irish, Jews, or gays for simply being those things. When your business holds out to the public, it gets additional regulation and oversight. No amount of religious belief makes your restaurant exempt from food safety laws. Because failure to comply can cause someone else harm.

    Well, discriminating against a whole population based on a characteristic they can't control causes them harm. And it causes harm to society. "No coloreds allowed" is a mindset that we need to get past. You are free to discriminate against individuals for doing individual things. But if you want society to respect your rights as an individual, it's only fair for you to treat others as individuals also.
    Last edited by Deuce; 02-28-14 at 03:54 PM.
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Well, discriminating against a whole population based on a characteristic they can't control causes them harm. And it causes harm to society. "No coloreds allowed" is a mindset that we need to get past. You are free to discriminate against individuals for doing individual things. But if you want society to respect your rights as an individual, it's only fair for you to treat others as individuals also.
    If I fail to serve someone what harm am I inflicting on those I refuse to serve? As for your argument that it harms society, it should be noted, as I noted earlier, that society is just a collection of individuals with their own individual human rights, and does not have its own rights onto itself that must be considered when dealing any topic.

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    If I fail to serve someone what harm am I inflicting on those I refuse to serve? As for your argument that it harms society, it should be noted, as I noted earlier, that society is just a collection of individuals with their own individual human rights, and does not have its own rights onto itself that must be considered when dealing any topic.
    great post, unfortunately also a great waste of breath. They made up their minds. Celebrate homosexuality OR ELSE. funny world we live in, huh?

    What if the Westboro baptists went into a bakery owned by a gay gentlemen and wanted a cake that said "God HATES Fags" on it? Would all of the people on here so, so upset over this law be in here SUPPORTING the westboro church and DEMANDING that the gay gentlemen bake them the cake? OF COURSE NOT! but since it wrecks their entire line of thinking they will simply ignore(or dance around) the GAPING HOLE in their argument. so cute, yet so sad.

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Soupnazi630 View Post
    The 14th amendment does not supprot your argument and groups are meaningless once again the facts prove you wrong uninformed

    I stated facts you give nebulous opinion
    so you are trying to argue one point and ignore the rest?
    LMAO
    sorry your post failed and got destroyed pages ago

    its already been proven that its just you OPINION and that fact will never change
    keep trying though its hilarious

    facts win again
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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    1.)Yeah, you typed a lot
    2.) but I see no rights that these laws protect.
    3.) Good to know you still can't find a human right that gives people rights over other peoples property, labor, service, and association.
    1.)nope i ddint type a lot lol, wrong number 1
    2.) you seeing them doesnt change the fact that they are there, wrong number 2. t
    hey exist in law, in rights, in facts and court cases all proving you wrong and continuing my entertainment of your posts failing as they always do lol
    3.) good to know nobody EVER claimed this, why do you post lies and make so much up. QOute me saying that there are rights that give me the power over your property, labor, service, and association. Ill wait

    you will fail because you made it up its the same failed straw man that gets laughed at, proven wrong and that you can never support every time you make it up

    i'll be waiting for that quote

    Facts win again





    dont forget that qoute please, or it will just prove you posted a lie thanks
    This space is currently owned by The Great Winchester, stay tuned for future messages!
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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    geeeez i thought yout at least try, yes i refered to LAWS and rights heres actually what i said


    and then i asked you to present ONE fact that disprove all that, ONE and you came back with a post that amounts to "nu-huh" and ZERO facts that go against what was already stated . . . thats hilarious!

    let me know when you can do this ill check back lol

    facts win again
    it is you who make the point that rights are being violated, ...yet you cannot provide 1 single right.

    yet you mask your defense, in a haze of humor, fog, claiming facts, and repeated refusal to name a right, per the Constitution.

    your attempts at these deflections, does not prove your case.

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    It would be a lot easier to simply veto the religion out of our society. We would be vastly better off without it. Religion supported slavery, supported the suppression of female rights and now supports the suppression of gay rights. It only evolves to accept society after it is protested against. If you get your morals form religion, you need to re-evaluate your beliefs. Religion has proven time and time again over the ages to be behind humanity in morality.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

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