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Thread: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

  1. #321
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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    It's private property. Their 1st Amendment rights still stand.
    Nope. Not when you open it up to the public. You have a right to be a bigot in your own home. You even have a right to be a bigot in your business. But you are not allowed to practice your bigotry by violating anti-discrimination laws. That's part of doing business in the US. Don't like it? Don't open a business.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Nope. Not when you open it up to the public. You have a right to be a bigot in your own home. You even have a right to be a bigot in your business. But you are not allowed to practice your bigotry by violating anti-discrimination laws. That's part of doing business in the US. Don't like it? Don't open a business.
    Well then I suppose thank god for the internet. There's a way out of it with brick and mortor too - limited membership buyers clubs.

    If the government wants to run my business from soup to nuts, what's the point? Let them do the work.

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    If life was that simple even self proclaimed bigoted Christians could figure it out.

    So expecting to be treated fairly and with dignity is trolling now?

    But there are more rational decent people than bigoted self proclaimed Christians.

    There is nothing militant about wanting to buy a cake offered for sale in a business open to the public.

    You too can chase them out of your church with a whip.

    Good excuse.

    YOu expected other bigots to be louder?

    Yes, I can feel the love and the presence of Jesus.

    Because it is the Christian thing to do.

    Proving that self righteous Christians are also.
    See? There is one of those trolls now.

    First, I don't know anybody who claims to be a bigoted Christian. You know where I see bigotry? Where non Christians paint all Christians as bigots. You saying they are doesn't make it so. In fact, it makes you look like the bigot. We're not talking about people wanted to be treated fairly and with dignity, we're talking about a small percentage of the population wanted to be treated as a protected special class while CLAIMING they want equality. If you wanted equality you would be happy to be treated like everybody else. But at the same time, you are bigoted and narrow minded. Equality in this case would be being treated the same way you treat others. If you were treated by others as you treat them you would be upset. The bill was not about a cake, it was about people not being forced to act against their religious beliefs. Once again, a bill that was supposed to protect religious beliefs was turned in to something that was against the gay community. The two are not mutually exclusive. The problem is that you are so self centered that everything is about you. It's not. Go ahead, keep pointing the finger at others and insisting they are out to get you, and see how long it takes for them to get tired of ignoring your punk ass and turn around and stomp it. Just like Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and the NAACP, you are escalating a small problem into something bigger than it needs to be to suit your own selfish agenda. Grow up. The world does not revolve around you no matter how special you think you are.
    Last edited by tech30528; 02-27-14 at 03:01 PM.

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    You're making excuses and trying to rationalize it out as not being harmful. How would you feel if you lived in a town where nobody would offer you services? How would you feel if you were driving your car on a road trip and the only gas station for miles refused service to you? How would you like not being allowed to eat at the local restaurant because they don't like Henrin's? How would you like the local hospital to refuse service to you or your family in a crisis?
    Feelings? Really, feelings? Dude, people hurt other peoples feelings all the time. Are you honestly suggesting the government should act because peoples feelings are hurt? What the hell man? Are you going to get the government to make me share with you too because I hurt your feelings? ****ing feelings. What kind of argument is that?

    This will inevitably bring up your second excuse, "the free market with fix it". No it won't, if it would, it would have in the 50's and 60's. Instead we had to have government intervene and say racial discrimination is not allowed.
    No, I'm suggesting that if there is no harm there can be no right violation, and if there is no right violation there is no justification for the government to act. Oh, and no, feeling is not a harm. Jesus..

  5. #325
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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You're too busy running for cover.
    I can go toe to toe with anyone. I dont like people that "move the goal posts" and I dont entertain "tail chasers".

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Nope. Not when you open it up to the public. You have a right to be a bigot in your own home. You even have a right to be a bigot in your business. But you are not allowed to practice your bigotry by violating anti-discrimination laws. That's part of doing business in the US. Don't like it? Don't open a business.
    There is no such thing as a business open to the public. It's a legal concept forced on business, but not one that exists in real life. All the rights these laws violate however are real, and many of them are protected by the Constitution by amendment.

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Should business be allowed to refuse to provide services because of race?
    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    There is no such thing as a business open to the public. It's a legal concept forced on business, but not one that exists in real life. All the rights these laws violate however are real, and many of them are protected by the Constitution by amendment.
    God Bless the Marine Corps.

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    Should business be allowed to refuse to provide services because of race?
    Yes...

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Well then I suppose thank god for the internet. There's a way out of it with brick and mortor too - limited membership buyers clubs.

    If the government wants to run my business from soup to nuts, what's the point? Let them do the work.
    Exactly. If I don't have any rights if I'm a business owner than **** the entire thing. If the government wants to run my business instead of ME, the owner, than let society do without my business, and lets see how well they do when everyone says **** this ****.

    Liberals talk of treating people equally, but what about the business owner? Did they forgot they are human beings too?

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Paperview View Post
    Anthony Scalia, on if you are allowed to break a law because: First Amendment!

    We have never held that an individual's religious beliefs excuse him from compliance with an otherwise valid law prohibiting conduct that the State is free to regulate.
    On the contrary, the record of more than a century of our free exercise jurisprudence contradicts that proposition.


    And, also (quoting Justice Frankfurter):


    Conscientious scruples have not, in the course of the long struggle for religious toleration, relieved the individual from obedience to a general law not aimed at the promotion or restriction of religious beliefs.

    Also, too:

    Subsequent decisions have consistently held that the right of free exercise does not relieve an individual of the obligation to comply with a "valid and neutral law of general applicability on the ground that the law proscribes (or prescribes) conduct that his religion prescribes (or proscribes)."

    And, finally:


    It may fairly be said that leaving accommodation to the political process will place at a relative disadvantage those religious practices that are not widely engaged in;

    but that unavoidable consequence of democratic government must be preferred to a system in which each conscience is a law unto itself or in which judges weigh the social importance of all laws against the centrality of all religious beliefs.

    LINK
    Nice colors. Did you understand the part of "valid laws"? If a state puts into practice laws that violates the Constitutional Rights of others it is not valid and should be challenged.
    When federal judges start basing their opinions on "hurt feelings" as in the case of the Colorado baker, over constitutional law something is very wrong and should be challenged.

    This is much more that religious rights, but the violation of expression of free speech and property rights. For what is the purpose of the First Amendment if it is not going to protect all? Sexual Orientation discrimination laws need to be defined in the originalist view of the Constitution. Not some living breathing rendition that anyone can make it to mean whatever they want it to.

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