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Thread: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Not at all. Policing actions is not the same as policing thought. People have every right in the world to be as bigoted as they want to be. However, if you choose to practice a business in the United States, you are not allowed to impose that bigotry on others.
    It's private property. Their 1st Amendment rights still stand.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by 1750Texan View Post
    Your question was simple. My answer was also simple. I don't wish to join you in chasing your tail.
    You're too busy running for cover.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Thats whats wrong with Liberalisn. You people want to protect some rights, but not all rights. Its always the rights of those you agree with. Liberalism is the opposite side of the Jim Crow coin.
    Bull****. Being a member of the Progressive Gays for Abortion isn't a protected status either. I can refuse to host a party for that group. But I can't refuse service to someone for being white or Christian.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    I have not said much about this topic becaue I just cant get my head around why anyone thinks taking picutures of gay people getting married, or making them a cake, or serving them a cheesburger on the way home afterwords somehow infringes on thier religious rights. I have read this thread and quite a bit about the bill, but what kind of state is Arizona? I cant beleive a bill that is simply antigay, got that far. It is amazing. If they were really so worried about they would not photograph weddings which were not first marriages, there are just so many sins and sinners out there, why just pick on gay people?
    It's not about an "anti-gay" law but the ramifications of sexual orientation laws that are too broad and too subjective. I mentioned the case in New Mexico about the photographers who declined to shoot a ceremony for a lesbian couple earlier and is now been petitioned to be heard at the U.S. Supreme Court. Cato Institute breaks this case down showing how these laws violate the 1st Amendment Rights of others. Religious rights, rights of conscience is just one aspect. Add to that free speech, and property.

    a freelance writer who thinks Scientology is a fraud would be violating New Mexico law (which bans religious discrimination as well as sexual orientation discrimination) if he refused to write a press release announcing a Scientologist event. And an actor would be violating the law if he refused to perform in a commercial for a religious organization of which he disapproves.
    Since the same rule would apply to state statutes that ban discrimination based on “political affiliation,” e.g., D.C. CODE § 2-1411.02 (2001); V.I. CODE tit. 10, § 64(3) (2006); SEATTLE,WASH.MUN. CODE §§ 14.06.020(L), .030(B), a Democratic freelance writer in a jurisdiction that had such a statute would have to accept commissions to write press releases for Republican candidates (so long as he writes press releases for Democrats). And under similar laws banning discrimination based on “marital status,” e.g., VT. STATS. ANN. tit. 9, § 4502(a) (2006), a Catholic singer who disapproves of weddings of people who have been divorced would have to take a job singing at such a wedding, including singing songs that implicitly or explicitly praise the occasion or the couple.
    Yet all such requirements would unacceptably force the speakers to “becom[e] the courier[s] for . . . message[s]” with which they disagree,” Wooley, 430 U.S. at 717. All would interfere with creators’ “right to decline to foster . . . concepts” that they disapprove] And all would interfere with the “individual freedom of mind,” id. at 714, by forcing writers, actors, painters, singers ,and photographers to express sentiments that they see as wrong.
    http://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/f...iled-brief.pdf

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    It's private property. Their 1st Amendment rights still stand.
    While you might disagree, this country has decided that a business holding out to the public is subject to stricter oversight and regulation. No amount of religious fervor gets your restaurant out of food safety laws. Adding to that, discrimination on the basis of certain characteristics has been made illegal because of the harm it causes to society.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    It's not about an "anti-gay" law but the ramifications of sexual orientation laws that are too broad and too subjective. I mentioned the case in New Mexico about the photographers who declined to shoot a ceremony for a lesbian couple earlier and is now been petitioned to be heard at the U.S. Supreme Court. Cato Institute breaks this case down showing how these laws violate the 1st Amendment Rights of others. Religious rights, rights of conscience is just one aspect. Add to that free speech, and property.



    http://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/f...iled-brief.pdf
    Cato is full of it.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by tech30528 View Post
    The burden of proof that the denial of services would rest entirely on the offended. If you can not prove that you were denied service because you are gay you will have to eat the court costs and the cost of defense.

    "He refused me service because he is Christian and I'm gay!"

    "He clearly stated he prayed for your soul. He had your best interests in mind. Case dismissed."
    If life was that simple even self proclaimed bigoted Christians could figure it out.

    If the gay community is going to continue to troll Christians
    So expecting to be treated fairly and with dignity is trolling now?

    And there are more Christians than homosexuals.
    But there are more rational decent people than bigoted self proclaimed Christians.

    It's only two pages, read it. As a Christian I am more than willing to be tolerant of a lifestyle I don't agree with, but if you are going to be militantly against my beliefs you can expect to get push back.
    There is nothing militant about wanting to buy a cake offered for sale in a business open to the public.

    And before anyone starts slinging scripture about turning the other cheek, keep in mind that Jesus turned over tables and chased the money changers out of the temple with a whip.
    You too can chase them out of your church with a whip.

    Keep in mind that Islam preaches against homosexuality as well.
    Good excuse.

    It is not at all surprising that liberals who talk about being fair, being civil and treating everyone the same are the loudest and angriest finger pointers in the argument.
    YOu expected other bigots to be louder?

    MOST Christians are not outwardly hostile to gays. But if you keep screaming that they are, expect them to come after you.
    Yes, I can feel the love and the presence of Jesus.

    Not because you are gay
    Because it is the Christian thing to do.

    but because you are an intolerant asshole.
    Proving that self righteous Christians are also.

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    For many years I ran a mowing/landscaping buisness. I am sure I cut some gay people lawns. How did that make me less of a Christian? There are a lot of sinners outthere, should we boycott them all?
    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    It's not about an "anti-gay" law but the ramifications of sexual orientation laws that are too broad and too subjective. I mentioned the case in New Mexico about the photographers who declined to shoot a ceremony for a lesbian couple earlier and is now been petitioned to be heard at the U.S. Supreme Court. Cato Institute breaks this case down showing how these laws violate the 1st Amendment Rights of others. Religious rights, rights of conscience is just one aspect. Add to that free speech, and property.


    http://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/f...iled-brief.pdf
    God Bless the Marine Corps.

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    For many years I ran a mowing/landscaping buisness. I am sure I cut some gay people lawns. How did that make me less of a Christian? There are a lot of sinners outthere, should we boycott them all?
    This isn't about boycotting anyone. None of the recent cases concerning the bakers, photographers, florists, etc. denied their services to gay people. They photographed portraits, baked all occasion cakes and created flower arrangements for all without their sexual orientation ever being questioned. What they all have in common is when it relates to marriage a religious belief to be between a man and a woman and the service they were asked to perform, to create violated their right of conscience, expression of free speech, and property.
    Last edited by vesper; 02-27-14 at 02:21 PM.

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Anthony Scalia, on if you are allowed to break a law because: First Amendment!

    We have never held that an individual's religious beliefs excuse him from compliance with an otherwise valid law prohibiting conduct that the State is free to regulate.
    On the contrary, the record of more than a century of our free exercise jurisprudence contradicts that proposition.


    And, also (quoting Justice Frankfurter):


    Conscientious scruples have not, in the course of the long struggle for religious toleration, relieved the individual from obedience to a general law not aimed at the promotion or restriction of religious beliefs.

    Also, too:

    Subsequent decisions have consistently held that the right of free exercise does not relieve an individual of the obligation to comply with a "valid and neutral law of general applicability on the ground that the law proscribes (or prescribes) conduct that his religion prescribes (or proscribes)."

    And, finally:


    It may fairly be said that leaving accommodation to the political process will place at a relative disadvantage those religious practices that are not widely engaged in;

    but that unavoidable consequence of democratic government must be preferred to a system in which each conscience is a law unto itself or in which judges weigh the social importance of all laws against the centrality of all religious beliefs.

    LINK

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