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Thread: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

  1. #191
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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    I'm not attacking him as a person, I'm challenging your attacks and his position. You spoke of being illogical, well, an anarchistic society with protections for any rights is about as contradictory and illogical as it gets.
    You didn't actually attack his position at all, or for that matter, my position. You quoted one line of the entire quote and then attacked anarchy as if that was at all relevant.

  2. #192
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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    I believe your post speaks to what Sen. Hatch was saying, in being torn between State's rights and discrimination.
    The link is earlier.
    As is my thing right now, I find the X, Risky and Danarhea posting styles on this issue to be a fascinating watch .
    Sometimes I'll seem completely bi-polar on the issue NIMBY. I don't oppose SSM but I also support religious liberty. I think you have to recognize that sometimes two people's Constitutional rights will collide and one will have to be given more weight and deference. It seems to me right now that religious freedom is the one that will always lose out and I cannot help but to find that concerning.

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Please do not call them civil rights. The term civil rights refers to natural justice, not some idiotic concept that people have the right to use property that is not their own, get provided service and labor against peoples wills, and force people into association with them. It's unfounded nonsense and has nothing to do with civil rights.


    When you have a business that is open to the public, then you are obliged to serve the public...

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Juanita View Post
    You have rights, the same rights that we all have--your conscience does not...IMO...
    Except if I open a business. Then for some reason my property rights go out the window.

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Religious freedom in America means that we all have a right to our religious beliefs but this does not give us the right to use any religion to discriminate against and impose those beliefs on others who do not share them
    If this is your answer then you truly do not understand basic 1st Amendment Rights. Protecting all persons religious liberty and the rights of conscience does not infringe on anyone’s sexual freedoms. All Americans should remain free in the public square to act in accordance with their beliefs about marriage without fear of government penalty. They should not have to compromise their beliefs just because they are part of the marketplace. But that is what you are advocating.

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Stop giving me legal drivel that violates property rights. A business is the property of the owner and like any other property owner they have a right to their property.




    This is not what you think it is. I'm arguing human rights, you're arguing unjust laws designed to give government power over private property. You're argument must assume violation of property rights is just and for that very reason you lose.


    Government already has power over private property that is open to the public --- a license to operate, inspections, mandatory insurance, etc. etc...

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    It's unique that you support SSM since the GOP hierarchy still doesn't, yet probably lean toward 1062.
    I support the GOP hierarchy for weighing in Nationally against 1062.

    The Log Cabins support SSM and are against 1062, but are rightly indignant at DEMs trying to use them as a wedge.
    I recognize Hatch's concern on religious freedom, as well as yours.
    As our Culture continues to go through its evolution, this surely will not be the end of new social divisions and state laws .
    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Sometimes I'll seem completely bi-polar on the issue NIMBY. I don't oppose SSM but I also support religious liberty. I think you have to recognize that sometimes two people's Constitutional rights will collide and one will have to be given more weight and deference. It seems to me right now that religious freedom is the one that will always lose out and I cannot help but to find that concerning.
    Physics is Phun

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Juanita View Post
    When you have a business that is open to the public, then you are obliged to serve the public...
    As I said, the original principle of civil rights came from natural justice and then it was applied to law. You can not declare you have a civil right to someones service or labor, association, or property. It runs counter to the very idea, and in fact, violates it.

    There is also no such thing as a private business that is open to the public.

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    1.) If this is your answer then you truly do not understand basic 1st Amendment Rights.
    2.) Protecting all persons religious liberty and the rights of conscience does not infringe on anyone’s sexual freedoms.
    3.)All Americans should remain free in the public square to act in accordance with their beliefs about marriage without fear of government penalty.
    4.) They should not have to compromise their beliefs just because they are part of the marketplace.
    5.) But that is what you are advocating.
    1.) please dont go there you already proved you do not understand rights or laws
    2.) correct it does not and they are intact, equal rights for gays poses no danger to them
    3.) they are as long as they dont break the law or infringe on rights, this is the same for us all
    4.) they factually do not have to compromise anything they are not allowed to break the law and infringe on the rights of others HUGE difference
    5.) nobody is advocating that, its a fantasy you keep making up that nobody honest and educated buys
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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Juanita View Post
    Government already has power over private property that is open to the public --- a license to operate, inspections, mandatory insurance, etc. etc...
    All of which violate property rights. You can list all sorts of laws if you please, but it will get you no where.

    I do however care to challenge the first one. To require someone to have license to practice their right to start a business is in clear violation of property rights as it controls what innocent parties decide to do with their property.

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