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Thread: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

  1. #151
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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    No amendment is necessary in interpreting the constitution. If the founders had intended for the Constitution to be interpreted solely in the context of 18th century societal needs and values then they would have defined the precise meaning of the terms contained therein and would not have granted the Supreme Court the authority to interpret it.
    So you interpret the Constitution by using modern definitions of words for a document that was ratified in 1787? That makes no sense what so ever. Your argument is absurd.

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    The right to be a bigot only exists in the individual mind. It does not extend beyond that. Sorry....it just doesn't....
    So good then I can right you down for one that would never tolerate bigotry toward those who believe in marriage to be between a man and a woman and you would never support such bigotry as a gay couple going to a Christian baker and demanding "you bake us a cake or else"!

    Like I stated earlier, this will take an act of Congress to insure all American's rights are being upheld and not trumped for another.
    Congress has an opportunity to protect religious liberty and the rights of conscience at the federal level. Policy should prohibit the government from discriminating against any individual or group, whether nonprofit or for-profit, based on their beliefs that marriage is the union of a man and woman. The Marriage and Religious Freedom Act, sponsored by Representative Raul Labrador (R., Idaho) in the House (H.R. 3133) with 100 co-sponsors of both parties and sponsored by Senator Mike Lee (R., Utah) in the Senate (S. 1808) with 17 co-sponsors, would give such protection. May the Republicans gain the Senate and maintain the House this 2014 election and the White House in 2016.

  3. #153
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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    as usual 100% wrong lmao holy cow how could you even make up something so absurd
    no what i said is one should choose to BREAK THE LAW and INFRINGE on others rights then act shocked they are in hot water
    then i suggested if they cant do that there are ways around it so they can hide thier criminal activity or have different rules that they will find easier not to break
    i love when you make up complete bs strawmen and they totally fail. its HALARIOUS
    I made up nothing. You offered up an absurd argument and I called you on it. See you next time Agent.

  4. #154
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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    So you interpret the Constitution by using modern definitions of words for a document that was ratified in 1787? That makes no sense what so ever. Your argument is absurd.
    Modern definitions for modern problems. It makes FAR more sense than trying to enter the minds of men who died 200 years ago to try to figure out how they would interpret 18th century language in the context of 20th and 21st century issues and apply 18th century values which are often in direct conflict with those of modern society. If they wanted us to do that, then they should have said as much. But guess what? They left the application of Constitutional powers and rights up to future generations to interpret instead and designed the Constitution as both a living and incomplete document.
    Last edited by Napoleon; 02-27-14 at 12:34 AM.

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Damn, I wished Brewer would have a serious one-on-one talk with Rick Perry about his bigoted, discriminating way of governing Texas. His moral fascist/sexist attitude is taking a toll on all of Texas women. He's probably too ignorant and in too much denial to understand, but she should at least give it a shot.

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    That's a scary position that could be used to justify any government action. We're over populated so you need to have that abortion "for the greater good". You will always have the ability to make money so we're just going to take what you've already accumulated and disperse it to others "for the greater good".
    I understand that. It's like everything else in life, it has to be evaluated in context. Your, or anyone else fears, about what may or may not evolve have to be considered objectively and should not be catered to without relevant support for their plausibility.
    "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers" - Voltaire
    "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow men. True nobility lies in being superior to your former self" -Hemingway

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Liberty is a human right, so unless you can show how the actions violate someones rights, yes, it does.

    Btw, do you support banning vices? Many of those have advise affects on society.
    Try not to go all strawman on me. Please.

    Human liberty is a goal but not at the expense of the community.

    IE. The community suffers when a business owner secures profit for himself by engaging workers under insufferable conditions.
    The business owner secures profit for himself by dumping waste in the community water source
    Citizens are allowed to drive drunk

    etc.
    "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers" - Voltaire
    "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow men. True nobility lies in being superior to your former self" -Hemingway

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    Try not to go all strawman on me. Please.

    Human liberty is a goal but not at the expense of the community.

    IE. The community suffers when a business owner secures profit for himself by engaging workers under insufferable conditions.
    The business owner secures profit for himself by dumping waste in the community water source
    Citizens are allowed to drive drunk

    etc.
    I'm not strawing anything up. Liberty is a human right, and like all other rights can only come into conflict with other rights. When you are arguing to limit the rights of people or to maintain a limitation you have to argue in terms of rights. You can not argue in terms of expense of the community.

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    I understand that. It's like everything else in life, it has to be evaluated in context. Your, or anyone else fears, about what may or may not evolve have to be considered objectively and should not be catered to without relevant support for their plausibility.
    By what you've stated though, individual liberty should always be sacrificed for "the greater good" but ok, let's talk plausibility. If wedding event planners, bakers, photographers etc. can be told that they have no right to their religious conscience what makes anyone so sure that won't be extended to pastors, ministers etc. who refuse to perform gay marriages?

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    Modern definitions for modern problems. It makes FAR more sense than trying to enter the minds of men who died 200 years ago to try to figure out how they would interpret 18th century language in the context of 20th and 21st century issues and apply 18th century values which are often in direct conflict with those of modern society. If they wanted us to do that, then they should have said as much. But guess what? They left the application of Constitutional powers and rights up to future generations to interpret instead and designed the Constitution as both a living and incomplete document.
    No, it makes no sense to use a document that was ratified in 1787 and then just ignore what everything means in that document by applying new definitions to the words. To even claim you are defending anything with such an absurd approach is ludicrous.

    That isn't even considering that your argument also includes adding the word business in the clause as if there is some sort of invisible text that only you can see.

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