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Thread: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

  1. #141
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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Oh good! At least you've grown up enough to realize you don't live in a vacuum. Now, if you'd only realize that laws aren't bad simply because you don't like them.
    Who exactly thinks they live in a vacuum? Please, tell me one person that believes that. I want to talk to them. Oh, and I see you're lying about my position again. My argument deals in human rights, not "I don't like it", but thanks for misrepresenting my argument.


    Who makes up the government? The people. The people create laws. I think you don't see when you argue in circles. You don't like the laws because they violate the rights of the people - who purposely create those laws to define the extent of the rights they gave themselves. So what exactly are you arguing against? People defining the extent of their rights? Or you not liking the extent to which the rights have been defined?
    The ruling body makes up the government. Why are you lost on this stuff?

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    We kiss our rights good bye more and more, everyday.
    The right to be a bigot only exists in the individual mind. It does not extend beyond that. Sorry....it just doesn't....
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  3. #143
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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    The right to be a bigot only exists in the individual mind. It does not extend beyond that. Sorry....it just doesn't....
    Do you care to tell me how you can have any rights at all without essentially the right to discriminate? This is not a trick question, nor am I saying I agree with discriminating business practices, but it's interesting when I see posts like that because I don't think you understand the ramifications of your argument.

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Thom Paine View Post
    I didn't state that succinctly.... The thought was concerning a Black caterer to cook and staff a KKK event... The law might say he must perform regardless...but is it fitting and proper to force the caterer and staff to be subjected to something so repugnant to them?

    2.)These types of laws are double edged indeed a conundrum.

    Thom Paine
    the law doesn't say that though, the law is smart in those regards age disability, origin, race/color, gender, religion and sometimes sexual orientation was picked for a reason.
    even though the law doesnt say this i go with your scenario just to save time

    he doesn't have to open a public access business, he CHOSE to and he new the rules and laws and how they work and had to apply to be a business etc.

    He would have to be a complete moron to think he'd never have to interact with anybody of an age disability, origin, race/color, gender, religion and sometimes sexual orientation he didnt like and then CHOOSE to break the law and illegal discriminate against them and think its ok

    he could simply not open a public access business
    contract the work out to another business
    not illegal discriminant
    or lie about the reason
    or open a totally provide business like out of ones home or on line etc

    they law wouldn't be forcing him it would be his choice

    2.) again although your example doesnt apply i understand what you are saying ans this is simply how freedom and rights work theres no other way
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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    the law doesn't say that though, the law is smart in those regards age disability, origin, race/color, gender, religion and sometimes sexual orientation was picked for a reason.
    even though the law doesnt say this i go with your scenario just to save time

    he doesn't have to open a public access business, he CHOSE to and he new the rules and laws and how they work and had to apply to be a business etc.

    He would have to be a complete moron to think he'd never have to interact with anybody of an age disability, origin, race/color, gender, religion and sometimes sexual orientation he didnt like and then CHOOSE to break the law and illegal discriminate against them and think its ok

    he could simply not open a public access business
    contract the work out to another business
    not illegal discriminant
    or lie about the reason
    or open a totally provide business like out of ones home or on line etc

    they law wouldn't be forcing him it would be his choice

    2.) again although your example doesnt apply i understand what you are saying ans this is simply how freedom and rights work theres no other way
    You do realize that your entire argument is saying that if people wish to practice their rights as a business owner they should avoid opening a certain kind of business, right? That is an absolutely terrible argument. The entire point of having a government in the first place is so we can have our rights protected.

  6. #146
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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Same questions to you then. What did the term regulate mean in 1787? Why isn't business listed in the commerce clause?
    Who cares? This isn't 1787 and both the manner in which our society does business and the mores and values of society have changed. We are not bound by 18th century dictionaries or perceptions of commerce. The Constitution has always been, must be, and will continue to be interpreted in the context of modern society and the text's modern applications.

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    1.)If you really believed that then you would be all over those laws that create special privileges based on sexual orientation and gender identity that are being used to trump fundamental civil liberties such as freedom of speech and the free exercise of religion.
    2.) If you really believed the jive you type you would admit these sexual orientation and gender laws have serious flaws.
    3.) They frequently fail to protect the civil liberties of Americans, especially when it comes to property rights and our religious liberty.
    4.)And if you really believed in freedom....Americans must be free to live and love how they choose.
    5.) Protecting religious liberty and the rights of conscience does not infringe on anyone’s sexual freedoms.
    6.) All Americans should remain free in the public square to act in accordance with their beliefs about marriage without fear of government penalty.
    1.) if those actually existed i would but they dont, you are makgin it up and nobody educated and honest buys it
    this as already been proven. if you disagree simply provide a factual example i grantee it will fail and facts will defeat it
    2.) nope they are just the same as age disability, origin, race/color, gender, religion they are no more or no less pron to the pros or cons of those

    again if you disagree give is a factual example

    3.) false see 1 and 2

    4.) i agree that is way equal rights for gays is winning and it is why you do not believe in freedom because you want to deny them, thank you for saying that, WOW that like the third time you proved our points for us. Lets read what you wrote again "Americans must be free to live and love how they choose" i agree now you should start fighting for equal rights for gays

    5.) i agree and they are already protected again thats our point, you want to go beyond that you want special treatment

    6.) this is already true you can act how ever you want as long as it doesn't break the law or infringe on rights, this is the same for EVERYBODY, again you are supporting the facts and equal rights and proving your own failed argument wrong.

    thanks!
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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    Who cares? This isn't 1787 and both the manner in which our society does business and the mores and values of society have changed. We are not bound by 18th century dictionaries or perceptions of commerce. The Constitution has always been, must be, and will continue to be interpreted in the context of modern society and the text's modern applications.
    Did you amend the constitution to change it's meaning? No? Good, so it still means what it did in 1787 and business is still not listed.

    Btw, do you know what the word meant? You do realize your entire argument is built on that word right?

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Did you amend the constitution to change it's meaning? No? Good, so it still means what it did in 1787.
    No amendment is necessary in interpreting the constitution. If the founders had intended for the Constitution to be interpreted solely in the context of 18th century terms, societal needs, and values then they would have defined the precise meaning of the terms contained therein and would not have granted the Supreme Court the authority to interpret it. The Constitution itself is very open-ended in places and the Commerce Clause is one of them.

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    You do realize that your entire argument is saying that if people wish to practice their rights as a business owner they should avoid opening a certain kind of business, right? That is an absolutely terrible argument. The entire point of having a government in the first place is so we can have our rights protected.
    as usual 100% wrong lmao holy cow how could you even make up something so absurd
    no what i said is one should choose to BREAK THE LAW and INFRINGE on others rights then act shocked they are in hot water
    then i suggested if they cant do that there are ways around it so they can hide thier criminal activity or have different rules that they will find easier not to break
    i love when you make up complete bs strawmen and they totally fail. its HALARIOUS
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