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Thread: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

  1. #131
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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    It doesn't have to be a religious belief. It could be a perfectly secular belief like discriminating against whites. However, as long as you're around, here are some examples of how some religious beliefs create dysfunction:

    Uganda Anti-Homosexuality Act, 2014 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    LGBT rights in Iran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Russia Not Only Country With Anti-Gay Laws

    Political policies created for the purpose of sheltering religious discrimination do create dysfunction within a society. It allows for the social, economic as well as cultural isolation of groups. They without a doubt have been shown to grow into full fledged persecution efforts. This bill? It basically threatened to put Arizona one step away from prosecuting homosexual acts.
    What you linked to are instances where there is a state sanctioned religion. We don't have one of those in the US and as long as we choose individual liberty over state control we most likely will never have one of those.

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Lol, people create the laws the government operates by - they don't get to turn around and then violate and abuse those laws. What concept of legality do you have a problem with? Actually, what part of "You don't live in a vacuum" do you have trouble with? Here is the best part:

    1. The constitution (supreme law of the land) agrees that the federal/state governments have an interest in regulating commerce.
    2. Court case after court case have agreed that the federal/state governments have an interest in regulating commerce.
    3. Legal scholars have agreed that the federal/state governments have an interest in regulating commerce.
    What did the term regulate mean in 1787. Why is it that business is not listed in the commerce clause? Don't you think that is kind of odd? I mean why did they list commerce between all these entities and just leave off business? Interesting, isn't it? Then again, what did the word regulate mean? Hmm..

    Hardly matters though. If they aren't in violation of anyones rights, and they aren't, than the state has no justification to act.

    Why is it that you disagree with the concept of law as conceived by the people? Never mind, weren't you the guy who didn't see how using child porn hurt people?
    If you don't understand the intent of that question yet, you never will. I have explained that question many times over and if you ever feel like it you can click on the quote of that question in Sanghas(however you spell it) sig and find that at no point did I endorse or condone anything nor did I offer my opinion on the matter. It was a question, that's it. Drop it.

  3. #133
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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Stop giving me legal drivel that violates property rights. A business is the property of the owner and like any other property owner they have a right to their property.This is not what you think it is. I'm arguing human rights, you're arguing unjust laws designed to give government power over private property. You're argument must assume violation of property rights is just and for that very reason you lose.
    Apparently you missed that little tidily-bit in the Constitution regarding the power to regulate commerce. Don't like it? Amend it.

  4. #134
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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    As we learned with the Abortion debate, your higher goal doesn't come at the expense of an individual's liberty.
    Your individual liberty does not come at the expense of the greater good.
    "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers" - Voltaire
    "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow men. True nobility lies in being superior to your former self" -Hemingway

  5. #135
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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) im not sure what you are asking?
    is it fitting and proper for the caterer to not service the KKK?
    sorry you lost me

    2.) sometimes it most certainly has and does
    especial in the political world or TV world as far as interviews public speaking

    for examples a politician or a police chief or a doctor or producible may be addressing a crowd and say African Americans or waitron

    but in real life, me an you, friends at a football game or walking down the street. If you said African american and not black id laugh at you, if you said waitron instead of waiter or waitress id probably ask you "what did you just say? " lol

    so yes i agree in some cases its out of control

    but in the case of rights its not, it cant be
    because the alternative is no rights

    rights must apply to us all in general or they are too fragile

    even more fragile than the already are and more pron to people violating them, if they are made unequal then what happens when you or me are on the unequal side?
    I didn't state that succinctly.... The thought was concerning a Black caterer to cook and staff a KKK event... The law might say he must perform regardless...but is it fitting and proper to force the caterer and staff to be subjected to something so repugnant to them?

    These types of laws are double edged indeed a conundrum.

    Thom Paine
    Remember, on the other side of that screen is a real person. ( Missouri Mule )

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    Apparently you missed that little tidily-bit in the Constitution regarding the power to regulate commerce. Don't like it? Amend it.
    Same questions to you then. What did the term regulate mean in 1787? Why isn't business listed in the commerce clause?

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    Your individual liberty does not come at the expense of the greater good.
    Liberty is a human right, so unless you can show how the actions violate someones rights, yes, it does.

    Btw, do you support banning vices? Many of those have advise affects on society.

  8. #138
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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I never said I didn't have to follow it.
    Oh good! At least you've grown up enough to realize you don't live in a vacuum. Now, if you'd only realize that laws aren't bad simply because you don't like them.

    The government creates laws. At least know the basics before posting. Otherwise, we will never get anywhere.
    Who makes up the government? The people. The people create laws. I think you don't see when you argue in circles. You don't like the laws because they violate the rights of the people - who purposely create those laws to define the extent of the rights they gave themselves. So what exactly are you arguing against? People defining the extent of their rights? Or you not liking the extent to which the rights have been defined?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  9. #139
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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    What you linked to are instances where there is a state sanctioned religion. We don't have one of those in the US and as long as we choose individual liberty over state control we most likely will never have one of those.
    Out of those 3 countries, only 1 has a state religion. Neither Uganda nor Russia have state religions.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  10. #140
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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    Your individual liberty does not come at the expense of the greater good.
    That's a scary position that could be used to justify any government action. We're over populated so you need to have that abortion "for the greater good". You will always have the ability to make money so we're just going to take what you've already accumulated and disperse it to others "for the greater good".

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