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Thread: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

  1. #111
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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Please do not call them civil rights. The term civil rights refers to natural justice, not some idiotic concept that people have the right to use property that is not their own, get provided service and labor against peoples wills, and force people into association with them. It's unfounded nonsense and has nothing to do with civil rights.
    From a classical standpoint civil rights would be those rights bestowed upon a people by a government or central authority. That's different than natural rights which exist in the "natural state" or outside the bounds of government.

    For example, the right to defend ones self from attack, to benefit from their labor or to believe as they choose is a natural right while the right to ride where you like on a public conveyance or drink from a public water fountain is a civil right granted by whoever is providing those public services.

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    That's a totalitarian point of view. Your take is that if the majority approve of something then everyone who disapproves just has to suck it up.
    Well, no disrespect to Hatuey, but I would never tell someone, whom might find themselves standing outside the fire of mainstream opinion, to just piss off and go to the basement. No sir. Not me.

    I'd be more like, "Yo' beotch. Go fix me a sammich."

    LOL!

    It's GREAT to be me. --- "45% liberal/55% conservative"
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  3. #113
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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    For the same reason it denies the right to freely practice any dogma which creates dysfunction within a society.
    "Dysfunction" is not a very descriptive word. Do you care to define it?

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    For the same reason it denies the right to freely practice any dogma which creates dysfunction within a society.
    What dysfunction is my religious belief creating?

  5. #115
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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by DashingAmerican View Post
    What I don't understand is why make such a deal about getting service for a place that clearly despises you. I mean, do you really expect a photographer that is being forced to take your pictures to take good pictures for you?
    It's not about that. It's about putting the higher goal of combating prejudice or hate above the personal or situational need or good customer service
    "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers" - Voltaire
    "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow men. True nobility lies in being superior to your former self" -Hemingway

  6. #116
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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    What dysfunction is my religious belief creating?
    A sanctimonious sexual revolution. (A fad)
    "I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." -Thomas Sowell

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfoot 88 View Post
    Speaking of Fred Phelps, I am sure many people would like to see businesses discriminate against Phelps and his clan. There would not be outcry, but cheering.

    And this illustrates the problem with leaving property rights up to public perception: they then become arbitrary and effectively void.
    Exactly. That's the thing about Freedom of Association - it is a form of speech. A message is being conveyed when people can shape their associations. Boycotting a business is a form of discrimination. Odd how liberals don't seem to have a problem with that form of discrimination.

  8. #118
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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by DashingAmerican View Post
    They could refuse to do it because "They don't want their business to be associated with that kind of unsavory language."
    yes they could
    but if theres a risk to sue they better be smart about it

    they could say they don't do profanity and then say based on this we wont take anymore requests from your org

    BUT they better have thier ducks in a row, if they try to sue and they subpoena thier records there better not be any other jobs with profanity in it or it better have an ironclad excuse why there is or again relationship back to religion could be made

    this is one of the things that happen with some of the christian own business they rejected the gays based on religious rights but did Jewish events and nonreligious wedding and event also. thier bigotry and illegal discrimaintion was thoroughly exposed.
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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    It's not about that. It's about putting the higher goal of combating prejudice or hate above the personal or situational need or good customer service
    As we learned with the Abortion debate, your higher goal doesn't come at the expense of an individual's liberty.

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    Re: Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    No, you think that because the state has powers that peoples rights are somehow trumped by those powers.
    If your right is made up nonsense? Sure. It's simple, first you argue that the powers of the government come from the people, then you argue that if you don't like what the people say - the law is wrong and you shouldn't have to follow it. I'm sorry you live in such a self centered childish world where if things aren't put your way, you simply refuse to do them. However, that's how laws work in reality. Don't like it? Leave.

    We have this argument over and over again and I've seen you have it with other people. You simply can't accept that you do not get to set the laws and then hide behind "the people" when "the people" are the ones that create the laws and rights in the first place.

    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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