- Joined
- Jan 12, 2010
- Messages
- 35,179
- Reaction score
- 44,139
- Location
- Somewhere in Babylon...
- Gender
- Undisclosed
- Political Leaning
- Undisclosed
Buddy should've read post 10, then he wouldn't known the punch line and gotten in one of those boats
Buddy should've read post 10, then he wouldn't known the punch line and gotten in one of those boats
No, I'm saying doctors and modern medicine sometimes kill or maim people whereas that's not something prayers are capable of..
Okay, I know I'm a contrarian, but I do know someone whose child, infant, died due to going to the doctor for a respiratory infection. The baby was 6 weeks old. The parents contracted a cold, so did the baby. They took the baby to the doctor who instructed them to take it to the hospital. They managed to clear up the "cold" but in the process the child acquired from the hospital a deadlier staph infection that even sending the baby from Boise to some huge totally reputable hospital in Seattle didn't resolve. The baby died after 6 weeks of agonizing (one can imagine since pain remedies are not generally given to infants,iirc) infections.The first baby died of pneumonia, and it looks as if the second (yes...second) died of that as well. Pneumonia, if you recall, is treatable. People tend not to get killed or maimed by going to the doctor for pneumonia.
Considering that the pastor has said outright that the parents would not seek treatment even if the same thing happened with their third baby (shudder), then this really isn't the thread for you to hang that particular hat on.
You are holding what is popularly known as "an indefensible position." Time to move along.
I guess I am gona get jumped on this, but the way I see it, unless the children are old and able enough to declare emancipation of their own free will, the parents have the absolute right to determine what if any medical treatment is appropriate. It is neither your nor my nor the states place to make that determination. These are NOT YOUR children, these children are these parents and they have the burden of responsibility to make these decisions. Would you brook someone second guessing YOUR decisions. I most certainly do not. Especially from the state. The ultimate responsibility lies with the parents. They obviously have very solid belief if they have done this a second time. The family seems to support them and their belief. I don't see this as murder or child abuse, as this works both ways as the state has done far worse far more. Case in point, the case in Massachusetts with Boston medical. Given the choice between the state and the individual I choose the individual every time.
By the way I don't think the order by the court for the parents to seek medical care for their children is lawful as it violates first amendment protections.
Okay, I know I'm a contrarian, but I do know someone whose child, infant, died due to going to the doctor for a respiratory infection. The baby was 6 weeks old. The parents contracted a cold, so did the baby. They took the baby to the doctor who instructed them to take it to the hospital. They managed to clear up the "cold" but in the process the child acquired from the hospital a deadlier staph infection that even sending the baby from Boise to some huge totally reputable hospital in Seattle didn't resolve. The baby died after 6 weeks of agonizing (one can imagine since pain remedies are not generally given to infants,iirc) infections.
The refused to seek medical attention for life threatening yet treatable conditions. They allowed their children to die due to neglect. Clear as crystal there buddy.
My point is the title of this thread is pure BS. Prayers don't cause death.
Exactly my point.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimate that health care-associated infections (HAI) account for an estimated 1.7 million infections and 99,000 associated deaths each year in U.S. hospitals.
Name anyone who died because of prayer.
The first baby died of pneumonia, and it looks as if the second (yes...second) died of that as well. Pneumonia, if you recall, is treatable. People tend not to get killed or maimed by going to the doctor for pneumonia.
Considering that the pastor has said outright that the parents would not seek treatment even if the same thing happened with their third baby (shudder), then this really isn't the thread for you to hang that particular hat on.
You are holding what is popularly known as "an indefensible position." Time to move along.
Exactly my point.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimate that health care-associated infections (HAI) account for an estimated 1.7 million infections and 99,000 associated deaths each year in U.S. hospitals.
Name anyone who died because of prayer.
The title of the thread is the USA Today headline. Don't blame me. And you're right. The cause of death was having two morons as parents.
60 yrs. in Federal Prison after sterilization.
Name anyone that had an easily treatable condition that was cured by prayer rather than medicine. That is the problem. Whether they pray for their kid or not is up to them. However, you cannot choose for your kids to deny them life saving treatment and instead rely on prayer alone. Similarly, I cannot choose to quite feeding my kids and instead rely on prayer to nourish them.
So what you are saying here is that the children are their parents property. Would you draw the line at religious sacrifice? What is the difference? I would also bet that you oppose abortion, but I could be wrong.I guess I am gona get jumped on this, but the way I see it, unless the children are old and able enough to declare emancipation of their own free will, the parents have the absolute right to determine what if any medical treatment is appropriate. It is neither your nor my nor the states place to make that determination. These are NOT YOUR children, these children are these parents and they have the burden of responsibility to make these decisions. Would you brook someone second guessing YOUR decisions. I most certainly do not. Especially from the state. The ultimate responsibility lies with the parents. They obviously have very solid belief if they have done this a second time. The family seems to support them and their belief. I don't see this as murder or child abuse, as this works both ways as the state has done far worse far more. Case in point, the case in Massachusetts with Boston medical. Given the choice between the state and the individual I choose the individual every time.
By the way I don't think the order by the court for the parents to seek medical care for their children is lawful as it violates first amendment protections.
While praying and 'because of' prayer are two different beasties.Jim Carrey got hit by an 18 wheeler while praying. Fortunately Morgan Freeman brought him back to life.
Why all liberals are so kind? Or you educated in schools for vampires?
I think I can fairly accurately guess those parents are on your pro-life team on the abortion issue.
Exactly my point.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimate that health care-associated infections (HAI) account for an estimated 1.7 million infections and 99,000 associated deaths each year in U.S. hospitals.
Name anyone who died because of prayer.
Well dang, with that line of thought, I should be allowed to stop feeding my daughter and pray for her nourishment. If she dies from starvation, that's my business. Piss off state!Why are you intolerant bigots telling this couple how to raise their children? Until the child is old enough to be viable on its own the state has no legitimate interest in protecting its life. If you disagree with child-murder, then don't murder a child. Keep your rosaries out of her ovaries.
Well dang, with that line of thought, I should be allowed to stop feeding my daughter and pray for her nourishment. If she dies from starvation, that's my business. Piss off state!
You realize I was being sarcastic, right?
i would be surprised if there were not large numbers of people who believed they were healed thru prayerName anyone that had an easily treatable condition that was cured by prayer rather than medicine.
but it is. you raise your children up in your own beliefsThat is the problem. Whether they pray for their kid or not is up to them.
while that would not be my choice, i must recognize that these parents are entitled to act on THEIR religious beliefs, no matter how different, or odd they may seemHowever, you cannot choose for your kids to deny them life saving treatment and instead rely on prayer alone.
this is not the same thingSimilarly, I cannot choose to quite feeding my kids and instead rely on prayer to nourish them.
I wonder if the law makers in Arizona would defend this family's right to refuse services due to their religious convictions?
Prayer won't kill people because it does nothing. It won't help someone either. If you get shot in the gut, do you want a prayer or a doctor? Even though there is some probability of greater harm in the hospital, rational folk take it over prayer because it has much much much much higher chances of benefiting the individual far beyond that which prayer would ever do.
A prayer or a doctor, what would you take? I'm not saying people cannot pray, but if you do it in lieu of taking your child to a hospital; there could be repercussions.