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Thread: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

  1. #71
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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    You realize I was being sarcastic, right?
    Ah, my bad. :P
    Give a man a fish and he can eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he can sit in a boat, drinking beer all day while you fool around with his Woman.

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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Name anyone that had an easily treatable condition that was cured by prayer rather than medicine.
    i would be surprised if there were not large numbers of people who believed they were healed thru prayer
    and Lazarus is a name, if you insist on having one

    That is the problem. Whether they pray for their kid or not is up to them.
    but it is. you raise your children up in your own beliefs
    one cannot do that, subscribe to a belief in healing prayer, and then also appeal for medical help you do not believe is the answer. that would undermine your religious teachings to your children
    and we all have a right to our personal religious beliefs (or disbeliefs)
    there is nothing which indicates these parents acted other than in a consistent way with their personal religious beliefs
    we must accept that not only are they are entitled to have their own religious beliefs, they also have the right to act on those beliefs
    just as we must accept your own religious beliefs/non-beliefs, no matter how farfetched they seem to us
    we must practice tolerance of these religious views and actions of others

    However, you cannot choose for your kids to deny them life saving treatment and instead rely on prayer alone.
    while that would not be my choice, i must recognize that these parents are entitled to act on THEIR religious beliefs, no matter how different, or odd they may seem

    Similarly, I cannot choose to quite feeding my kids and instead rely on prayer to nourish them.
    this is not the same thing
    there are many, MANY parents who feed their children crap that is unhealthy for them. look around. but we still recognize that it's the parents' call. they can choose to feed their children unnourishing foods. even worse, those kids are often being fed that crap at taxpayer expense; but that's for another thread discussion
    and i would submit that there are parents who are feeding their childrens' minds inane bull ****; much of it religious. but that is the parents' right. the bill or rights says so. for them, and for these parents who tried but were unable to pray away the sickness that afflicted their children
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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    I wonder if the law makers in Arizona would defend this family's right to refuse services due to their religious convictions?

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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    I wonder if the law makers in Arizona would defend this family's right to refuse services due to their religious convictions?
    Doubtful, I don't think those laws cover emergency and medical services.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Prayer won't kill people because it does nothing. It won't help someone either. If you get shot in the gut, do you want a prayer or a doctor? Even though there is some probability of greater harm in the hospital, rational folk take it over prayer because it has much much much much higher chances of benefiting the individual far beyond that which prayer would ever do.

    A prayer or a doctor, what would you take? I'm not saying people cannot pray, but if you do it in lieu of taking your child to a hospital; there could be repercussions.
    I'm doing both because I'm not a fundie nutjob.

    But, prayer does work and I highly recommend it.
    32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
    Matt. 10:32-33

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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    From OP's link: "Their pastor, Nelson Clark, has said the Schaibles lost their sons because of a "spiritual lack" in their lives and insisted they would not seek medical care even if another child appeared near death."

    Perhaps the Pastor should be charged or sued also? I'm not sure because of the first amendment aspect of the situation.

    As I recall from another article, this couple hedged their bet on their god's abilities to heal by having nine kids.

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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    But, prayer does work and I highly recommend it.
    Yes, well I'm not so convinced till I see some peer reviewed studies in renowned medical journals with statistically significant deviation from background.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    i would be surprised if there were not large numbers of people who believed they were healed thru prayer
    and Lazarus is a name, if you insist on having one


    but it is. you raise your children up in your own beliefs
    one cannot do that, subscribe to a belief in healing prayer, and then also appeal for medical help you do not believe is the answer. that would undermine your religious teachings to your children
    and we all have a right to our personal religious beliefs (or disbeliefs)
    there is nothing which indicates these parents acted other than in a consistent way with their personal religious beliefs
    we must accept that not only are they are entitled to have their own religious beliefs, they also have the right to act on those beliefs
    just as we must accept your own religious beliefs/non-beliefs, no matter how farfetched they seem to us
    we must practice tolerance of these religious views and actions of others


    while that would not be my choice, i must recognize that these parents are entitled to act on THEIR religious beliefs, no matter how different, or odd they may seem


    this is not the same thing
    there are many, MANY parents who feed their children crap that is unhealthy for them. look around. but we still recognize that it's the parents' call. they can choose to feed their children unnourishing foods. even worse, those kids are often being fed that crap at taxpayer expense; but that's for another thread discussion
    and i would submit that there are parents who are feeding their childrens' minds inane bull ****; much of it religious. but that is the parents' right. the bill or rights says so. for them, and for these parents who tried but were unable to pray away the sickness that afflicted their children
    If genital mutilation or stoning were part of their religious beliefs. Are they still ENTITLED to "act" on their religious beliefs? They allowed their children to die by neglecting to seek medical help. They have zero rights to do or not do what they did.

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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I hope they both go to jail.

    This is a failure of the system. Perhaps now, if they have any other children, jail or not? They'll lose them.
    They have four other children who have been placed in foster care. I assume there are no other suitable relatives. This is a terrible situation and I hope those children will adjust. Sometimes beliefs are detrimental to the good of people.
    "Being President doesn't change who you are, it reveals who you are"

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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Yes, well I'm not so convinced till I see some peer reviewed studies in renowned medical journals with statistically significant deviation from background.
    I can only tell you of my personal experience. Is that peer-reviewed enough?
    32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
    Matt. 10:32-33

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