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Thread: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

  1. #51
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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Buddy should've read post 10, then he wouldn't known the punch line and gotten in one of those boats

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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    No, I'm saying doctors and modern medicine sometimes kill or maim people whereas that's not something prayers are capable of..
    The first baby died of pneumonia, and it looks as if the second (yes...second) died of that as well. Pneumonia, if you recall, is treatable. People tend not to get killed or maimed by going to the doctor for pneumonia.

    Considering that the pastor has said outright that the parents would not seek treatment even if the same thing happened with their third baby (shudder), then this really isn't the thread for you to hang that particular hat on.

    You are holding what is popularly known as "an indefensible position." Time to move along.

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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    The first baby died of pneumonia, and it looks as if the second (yes...second) died of that as well. Pneumonia, if you recall, is treatable. People tend not to get killed or maimed by going to the doctor for pneumonia.

    Considering that the pastor has said outright that the parents would not seek treatment even if the same thing happened with their third baby (shudder), then this really isn't the thread for you to hang that particular hat on.

    You are holding what is popularly known as "an indefensible position." Time to move along.
    Okay, I know I'm a contrarian, but I do know someone whose child, infant, died due to going to the doctor for a respiratory infection. The baby was 6 weeks old. The parents contracted a cold, so did the baby. They took the baby to the doctor who instructed them to take it to the hospital. They managed to clear up the "cold" but in the process the child acquired from the hospital a deadlier staph infection that even sending the baby from Boise to some huge totally reputable hospital in Seattle didn't resolve. The baby died after 6 weeks of agonizing (one can imagine since pain remedies are not generally given to infants,iirc) infections.
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  4. #54
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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    I guess I am gona get jumped on this, but the way I see it, unless the children are old and able enough to declare emancipation of their own free will, the parents have the absolute right to determine what if any medical treatment is appropriate. It is neither your nor my nor the states place to make that determination. These are NOT YOUR children, these children are these parents and they have the burden of responsibility to make these decisions. Would you brook someone second guessing YOUR decisions. I most certainly do not. Especially from the state. The ultimate responsibility lies with the parents. They obviously have very solid belief if they have done this a second time. The family seems to support them and their belief. I don't see this as murder or child abuse, as this works both ways as the state has done far worse far more. Case in point, the case in Massachusetts with Boston medical. Given the choice between the state and the individual I choose the individual every time.

    By the way I don't think the order by the court for the parents to seek medical care for their children is lawful as it violates first amendment protections.
    You don't own your children. They are not your property. You are responsible for them. Not providing your children with proper medical care is no different than not providing them with food, water, or shelter. Would you support a parent being able to starve their child to death if it was their religious belief that prayer was all the nourishment their kids required?
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    Okay, I know I'm a contrarian, but I do know someone whose child, infant, died due to going to the doctor for a respiratory infection. The baby was 6 weeks old. The parents contracted a cold, so did the baby. They took the baby to the doctor who instructed them to take it to the hospital. They managed to clear up the "cold" but in the process the child acquired from the hospital a deadlier staph infection that even sending the baby from Boise to some huge totally reputable hospital in Seattle didn't resolve. The baby died after 6 weeks of agonizing (one can imagine since pain remedies are not generally given to infants,iirc) infections.
    Exactly my point.

    The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimate that health care-associated infections (HAI) account for an estimated 1.7 million infections and 99,000 associated deaths each year in U.S. hospitals.

    Name anyone who died because of prayer.
    32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
    Matt. 10:32-33

  6. #56
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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryChinaski View Post
    The refused to seek medical attention for life threatening yet treatable conditions. They allowed their children to die due to neglect. Clear as crystal there buddy.
    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    My point is the title of this thread is pure BS. Prayers don't cause death.
    The title of the thread is the USA Today headline. Don't blame me. And you're right. The cause of death was having two morons as parents.

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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Exactly my point.

    The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimate that health care-associated infections (HAI) account for an estimated 1.7 million infections and 99,000 associated deaths each year in U.S. hospitals.

    Name anyone who died because of prayer.
    Name anyone that had an easily treatable condition that was cured by prayer rather than medicine. That is the problem. Whether they pray for their kid or not is up to them. However, you cannot choose for your kids to deny them life saving treatment and instead rely on prayer alone. Similarly, I cannot choose to quite feeding my kids and instead rely on prayer to nourish them.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    The first baby died of pneumonia, and it looks as if the second (yes...second) died of that as well. Pneumonia, if you recall, is treatable. People tend not to get killed or maimed by going to the doctor for pneumonia.

    Considering that the pastor has said outright that the parents would not seek treatment even if the same thing happened with their third baby (shudder), then this really isn't the thread for you to hang that particular hat on.

    You are holding what is popularly known as "an indefensible position." Time to move along.
    No, you are trying to paint me as agreeing with what those parents refused to do. Nice try.

    [I already addressed the parent's faulty religious beliefs]
    32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
    Matt. 10:32-33

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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Exactly my point.

    The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimate that health care-associated infections (HAI) account for an estimated 1.7 million infections and 99,000 associated deaths each year in U.S. hospitals.

    Name anyone who died because of prayer.
    Jim Carrey got hit by an 18 wheeler while praying. Fortunately Morgan Freeman brought him back to life.

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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    The title of the thread is the USA Today headline. Don't blame me. And you're right. The cause of death was having two morons as parents.
    I wasn't casting blame and I checked the source to be sure.
    32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
    Matt. 10:32-33

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