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Thread: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    I am NOT by any means a religious man, in fact I am rather irreligious, I am content with the fact when I die I cease to exist. That said this couple BELIEVE so much in their religion that they eschew medical intervention for themselves and their children. By all accounts they are besides that belief very good parents. This country is founded on religious freedom, the freedom to believe as one wishes. They have not wronged anyone. Even the children that died. The children died of natural causes and not neglect. The children were well cared for, and what medical attention that was allowed by their religion was used. This cannot be construed as neglect. The parents in their duties as guardians performed their duties diligently within the proscriptions of their beliefs. This is a question of religious freedom pure and simple. The court in my opinion oversteps its bounds.
    All of our rights are subjected to the one constraint that we cannot infringe upon the rights of others in the process. If a person chooses for themselves to not seek medical help, that's one thing. But a child is unable to give consent and the parents not seeking obvious medical care endanger the life of that child, they infringe upon the child's right to life. So then it's right of religious freedom vs. right to life. I think it could be argued that the right to life overrules the right to religious freedom in this case.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    You call it idiocy.
    Just as I do your argument.

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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    You call it idiocy. To them its belief. Should you be thrown in cage for yours if you have any you strongly hold to, because others disagree with you?
    If I kill someone in the exercise of my belief...likely yes.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    Those parents did NONE of those things.
    The refused to seek medical attention for life threatening yet treatable conditions. They allowed their children to die due to neglect. Clear as crystal there buddy.
    Give a man a fish and he can eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he can sit in a boat, drinking beer all day while you fool around with his Woman.

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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    I believe that children until they are either of age or emancipated are property for legal purposes similar to having livestock or pets. That said unless there is an obvious case of abuse which there is not in this particular case the parents should have full leeway and control. People are equating the restriction of medical care as abuse. Over use of medical facilities can be construed as abuse as well. I am of the opinion that unless abuse is blatant and provable it is not our or the states business to interfere. The children in both cases died of natural causes, not neglect. Neglect cannot be proven in this case.
    First thing I'd say is that I categorically reject the definition of what a child is and that for the most part society and the courts have similarly rejected that definition. The second thing I'd say is that the denial of sustenance that prevents death is among the most egregious forms of abuse that I can think of whether that sustenance is food, medical care, water, etc. You do not have a religious right to let your child die because you think it's the spiritually correct course of action.

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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    I guess I am gona get jumped on this, but the way I see it, unless the children are old and able enough to declare emancipation of their own free will, the parents have the absolute right to determine what if any medical treatment is appropriate. It is neither your nor my nor the states place to make that determination.
    Absolute BS, the state has an obligation of caring for the welfare of children when the parents are guilty of neglect.

    These parents were already under court order to seek medical care for this child AFTER they neglected the health of the first child that died from pneumonia.
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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    That argument works if you're making it before the invention of medicine.
    My point is the title of this thread is pure BS. Prayers don't cause death.
    32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
    Matt. 10:32-33

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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    My point is the title of this thread is pure BS. Prayers don't cause death.
    These prayers sure didn't do the kid any favors.

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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Buddys town is about to flood.

    But Buddy doesn't go anywhere, his neighbour says come on buddy we gotta get outta here the town is gonna flood.

    But Buddy says "I have nothing to fear, god will save me" and so he stays.

    The town floods and now he's on his roof.

    A rescue boat comes along "Jump on"

    "I have nothing to fear, God will save me" says buddy and the boat continues.

    The water now creeps up to the very top of the roof and buddys feet are wet.

    Next thing a helicopter appears in the sky

    "Grab onto this rope" he hears from the megaphone in the helicopter.

    "I have nothing to fear, god will save me" says buddy and so he refuses the rope and the helicopter moves on.

    The waters rise and rise and Buddy drowns and dies.

    He goes to heaven and meets god.

    "God why didn't you save me from that flood" Buddy asks

    To which god replies "I sent you a warning, a boat and a helicopter what more do you ****ing want from me"

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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    These prayers sure didn't do the kid any favors.
    Sometimes doctors and medicine don't do any good either.
    32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
    Matt. 10:32-33

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