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Thread: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

  1. #21
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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    Too bad these people didn't just abort the child. Then those on the left who suddenly care about the health of children would cheer that decision. But it is the role of the state to defend the rights of the individual, and as parents, they are the guardians of that childs rights until it becomes old enough to make such decisions for itself. Here, the parents clearly failed, and what is clearly neglect cannot be hidden behind faith. They failed in their responsibility to that child and should face the same neglect and endangerment and possibly wrongful death charges that anyone who fails to care for a child in their custody would face.
    I am NOT by any means a religious man, in fact I am rather irreligious, I am content with the fact when I die I cease to exist. That said this couple BELIEVE so much in their religion that they eschew medical intervention for themselves and their children. By all accounts they are besides that belief very good parents. This country is founded on religious freedom, the freedom to believe as one wishes. They have not wronged anyone. Even the children that died. The children died of natural causes and not neglect. The children were well cared for, and what medical attention that was allowed by their religion was used. This cannot be construed as neglect. The parents in their duties as guardians performed their duties diligently within the proscriptions of their beliefs. This is a question of religious freedom pure and simple. The court in my opinion oversteps its bounds.
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  2. #22
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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    Its not your decision either. Its not the courts place to be deciding this as well, though it seems they took that liberty anyhow.
    The law prevents you from abusing, torturing, starving and neglecting your children. End of story.
    Give a man a fish and he can eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he can sit in a boat, drinking beer all day while you fool around with his Woman.

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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    I guess I am gona get jumped on this, but the way I see it, unless the children are old and able enough to declare emancipation of their own free will, the parents have the absolute right to determine what if any medical treatment is appropriate. It is neither your nor my nor the states place to make that determination. These are NOT YOUR children, these children are these parents and they have the burden of responsibility to make these decisions. Would you brook someone second guessing YOUR decisions. I most certainly do not. Especially from the state. The ultimate responsibility lies with the parents. They obviously have very solid belief if they have done this a second time. The family seems to support them and their belief. I don't see this as murder or child abuse, as this works both ways as the state has done far worse far more. Case in point, the case in Massachusetts with Boston medical. Given the choice between the state and the individual I choose the individual every time.

    By the way I don't think the order by the court for the parents to seek medical care for their children is lawful as it violates first amendment protections.
    Just want to ask because I want to understand your stance on this...

    Are you pro-life or pro-choice? The reason I ask is often the pro-life position is predicated on the notion that a child is incapable of defending their own rights, and as such the state has a duty to step in and protect it's right to life if the parent is neglecting said right.

    In this instance, the parent is clearly neglecting the right the child has to life by disallowing the child to seek medical treatment for a life threatening disease.

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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    I am NOT by any means a religious man, in fact I am rather irreligious, I am content with the fact when I die I cease to exist. That said this couple BELIEVE so much in their religion that they eschew medical intervention for themselves and their children. By all accounts they are besides that belief very good parents. This country is founded on religious freedom, the freedom to believe as one wishes. They have not wronged anyone. Even the children that died. The children died of natural causes and not neglect. The children were well cared for, and what medical attention that was allowed by their religion was used. This cannot be construed as neglect. The parents in their duties as guardians performed their duties diligently within the proscriptions of their beliefs. This is a question of religious freedom pure and simple. The court in my opinion oversteps its bounds.
    WTF? they died from neglect. They were denied medical treatment that would have saved their lives. You're wacky.
    Give a man a fish and he can eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he can sit in a boat, drinking beer all day while you fool around with his Woman.

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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    I don't consider children to be the property of their parents. We have a moral, societal, and legal interest in seeing to the good health (read not dying) of children in this country. Just because a parent believes they are following the moral course of action with regards to their child doesn't mean they have an unlimited right to do it. I may think my kid should play sports, hell I may think exercise is a holy pursuit, it doesn't mean I have the right to send my child on a death march and see if he comes out the other side as a religious test. If this is trampling on certain protections in your eyes then so be it---trample away and do it as fast as you can.

    Honestly your argument sounds more like a justification for a 30th trimester abortion than a First Amendment defense.
    I believe that children until they are either of age or emancipated are property for legal purposes similar to having livestock or pets. That said unless there is an obvious case of abuse which there is not in this particular case the parents should have full leeway and control. People are equating the restriction of medical care as abuse. Over use of medical facilities can be construed as abuse as well. I am of the opinion that unless abuse is blatant and provable it is not our or the states business to interfere. The children in both cases died of natural causes, not neglect. Neglect cannot be proven in this case.
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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    They have not wronged anyone. Even the children that died. The children died of natural causes and not neglect. .
    Senseless death. Easily avoidable. The idiocy of praying away illness. These morons will get theirs.

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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Just want to ask because I want to understand your stance on this...

    Are you pro-life or pro-choice? The reason I ask is often the pro-life position is predicated on the notion that a child is incapable of defending their own rights, and as such the state has a duty to step in and protect it's right to life if the parent is neglecting said right.

    In this instance, the parent is clearly neglecting the right the child has to life by disallowing the child to seek medical treatment for a life threatening disease.
    Neither actually. It is a family decision. State intervention should be eschewed.

    I also don't see this as a case of neglect, and I challenge people to prove there was neglect. Medical practice is just that practice, all it does is increase the odds that you may recover from whatever ailment one is suffering. Nothing is ever 100% guaranteed. In this case the parents made a valid medical decision based in part on their beliefs.
    Semper Fidelis, Semper Liber.
    I spit at lots of people through my computer screen. Not only does it "teach them a lesson" but it keeps the screen clean and shiny.
    Stolen fair and square from the Capt. Courtesey himself.

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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryChinaski View Post
    WTF? they died from neglect. They were denied medical treatment that would have saved their lives. You're wacky.
    Medical treatment would have improved their odds greatly of survival. There's a difference and that is significant. No neglect was involved. Just a decision. That's a major difference.
    Semper Fidelis, Semper Liber.
    I spit at lots of people through my computer screen. Not only does it "teach them a lesson" but it keeps the screen clean and shiny.
    Stolen fair and square from the Capt. Courtesey himself.

  9. #29
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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryChinaski View Post
    The law prevents you from abusing, torturing, starving and neglecting your children. End of story.
    Those parents did NONE of those things.
    Semper Fidelis, Semper Liber.
    I spit at lots of people through my computer screen. Not only does it "teach them a lesson" but it keeps the screen clean and shiny.
    Stolen fair and square from the Capt. Courtesey himself.

  10. #30
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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    Senseless death. Easily avoidable. The idiocy of praying away illness. These morons will get theirs.
    You call it idiocy. To them its belief. Should you be thrown in cage for yours if you have any you strongly hold to, because others disagree with you?
    Semper Fidelis, Semper Liber.
    I spit at lots of people through my computer screen. Not only does it "teach them a lesson" but it keeps the screen clean and shiny.
    Stolen fair and square from the Capt. Courtesey himself.

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