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Thread: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

  1. #151
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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    If only we could pray away the stupidity?
    You sit here and ridicule others faith yet if I called you a bitch terrorist everyone would be up in arms....

    So what is the difference between your bias and mine against you?

    Sometimes faith healing is the only solution and in some sects of Christianity are all natural - from life to death.

    You may as well persecute the Amish for living a different lifestyle too...

    News to you buddy, not everyone needs to live, eat, breath, drink, or hold the same religion or politics as you.

    My cousin died of cancer and you know what? in the end all she had was faith and faith healing.

    Now I'm not a proponent, but I do believe in individual liberties and separation between Church and State (in this case)...

    How dare you - you may as well said the parents didn't love their child.

    Beyond all this "faith healing" has been proven to work so it's certainly a viable medical alternative.

    Of course you got the uber progressive countries in the EU allowing people to basically commit suicide (which is a different thread all together)...
    Last edited by Mr.Nick; 02-26-14 at 03:26 PM.

  2. #152
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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    You sit here and ridicule others faith yet
    To ridicule one's faith is uncalled for, but to endorse bad decisions that cost lives because one believes something is another matter. People should be able to believe anything they wish, act accordingly and suffer the consequences, but they are not allowed to do so with other's lives. The child may have been "their" child, but was not their property or slave where they held life and death decisions.

    Sometimes faith healing is the only solution and in some sects of Christianity are all natural - from life to death.
    But that is not the case here, we are neither in the stone age or some remote area like the backside of the moon.

    You may as well persecute the Amish for living a different lifestyle too...
    But that is their life style individually chosen not the life of another.

    How dare you - you may as well said the parents didn't love their child.
    Loved the child to death.

    Beyond all this "faith healing" has been proven to work so it's certainly a viable medical alternative.
    BS. If it was so it would be documented.

  3. #153
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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    You sit here and ridicule others faith yet if I called you a bitch terrorist everyone would be up in arms....

    So what is the difference between your bias and mine against you?

    Sometimes faith healing is the only solution and in some sects of Christianity are all natural - from life to death.

    You may as well persecute the Amish for living a different lifestyle too...

    News to you buddy, not everyone needs to live, eat, breath, drink, or hold the same religion or politics as you.

    My cousin died of cancer and you know what? in the end all she had was faith and faith healing.

    Now I'm not a proponent, but I do believe in individual liberties and separation between Church and State (in this case)...

    How dare you - you may as well said the parents didn't love their child.

    Beyond all this "faith healing" has been proven to work so it's certainly a viable medical alternative.

    Of course you got the uber progressive countries in the EU allowing people to basically commit suicide (which is a different thread all together)...
    If your cousin was old enough to decide for herself then that was her right. Though I find it strange that you'd ridicule the EU for allowing 'people to basically commit suicide' and not see an inconsistency with your cousin refusing medical care in favor of prayer. I'm obviously not privy to the details of her case but if her prognosis called for a medical regimen that might have been successful it's pretty arguable that she essentially opted for suicide. Delayed suicide perhaps, but still suicide.

  4. #154
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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    You sit here and ridicule others faith yet if I called you a bitch terrorist everyone would be up in arms....

    So what is the difference between your bias and mine against you?

    Sometimes faith healing is the only solution and in some sects of Christianity are all natural - from life to death.

    You may as well persecute the Amish for living a different lifestyle too...

    News to you buddy, not everyone needs to live, eat, breath, drink, or hold the same religion or politics as you.

    My cousin died of cancer and you know what? in the end all she had was faith and faith healing.

    Now I'm not a proponent, but I do believe in individual liberties and separation between Church and State (in this case)...

    How dare you - you may as well said the parents didn't love their child.

    Beyond all this "faith healing" has been proven to work so it's certainly a viable medical alternative.

    Of course you got the uber progressive countries in the EU allowing people to basically commit suicide (which is a different thread all together)...
    Negligent homicide of a child in your custody is not ****ing covered by the first amendment and I see absolutely no reason to humor such a thing.

    Tell me, Mr. Nick, does your open support for religious diversity include Islamic "honor killings?"
    Last edited by Deuce; 02-26-14 at 03:51 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    We have no reason not to believe him. [North Korean Dictator and Mass Murder Kim Jong-Un] has been very honest and accommodating.

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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    I think this infringes on the couple's religious freedom and a really hope there is an appeal coming.

    Would you force a Jehovas Witness to take a blood transfusion? Would you force Jewish kids to eat pork? There has to be some degree of religious freedom in this country and progressive activists should not legally be able to force people to conform to THEIR standards.
    An adult JW? No. And eating pork is not of a life saving or abusive nature.
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    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    Your not going to like my answer. Yes I would. Religious freedom is a key right we have. Again unless it is demonstrated that the parents are in fact neglecting or abusing their children we have no right to interfere. These parents in particular are by all accounts besides deeply religious also very loving very supportive and caring parents. These parents believe differently than you or I, this means the decisions they will make may be much different then ones you or I may make. As much as people claim that it is neglect here, it most certainly and clearly is NOT, it is a decision clearly made, which is well within their parental rights and responsibilities. The fact you or I would not AGREE with the decision has no bearing on whether or not neglect is involved which clearly in this case there was not. Broken legs can be set without doctors or medical services. Most religions do not proscribe against the setting of bones I am aware of.

    Hello...is this thing on?


    Herbert and Catherine Schaible are being sentenced Wednesday in the death last year of their 8-month-old son, Brandon. At the time, they were under court orders to seek medical care for their children after their 2-year-old son, Kent, died of untreated pneumonia in 2009.



    Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths
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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    They weren't doing "anything they wanted," they were complying with their religious beliefs.
    They took their religion to the extreme and ultimately killed two of their own in the name of their religion. People are free to practice whatever religion or belief they chose...but its not a legal or protected right to do harm in the name of a relgion, not even to your own kids.

    Religious individuals are still subject to the same criminal laws as everyone else.

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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    No one, no one, no one... is saying that an adult Jehovah's Witness should be forced to take a blood transfusion. No one, no one, no one... is saying that an adult Christian Scientist should be forced to accept medical care when they believe that prayer is all the care they need. In both cases if they are conscious adults, then they can consent to care or not.

    However, a child of a Jehovah's Witness or Christian Scientist cannot consent.
    The problem with this argument is that it privileges the Government's viewpoint over the JW or Jews or CS viewpoint. In a sense it sounds like this - "OK, we're going to let you adults do whatever stupid thing it is that you believe you should do, but when it comes to your own children, then you can't do your stupid thing, you have to do the smart thing that WE believe."

    I get that it's really hard not to view Praying for Salvation as a stupid thing and it's very easy to see medical intervention as a smart thing to do, but try to see the underlying principles here. The government's viewpoint is not privileged, it's equal. The government doesn't grant people the right to believe what they wish, that right is inherent. The government doesn't humor people in such situations. The government's position is no better, no more privileged, that the individual's position.

    Because a child is the not the physical property of their parents (because human beings are never property), that child's parents cannot make such a decision for a child. This is a simple legal concept, I am not sure why it is so difficult for a few people on here to comprehend.
    It's not the government's position to damn the eternal soul of the child by forcing him to receive medical treatment against the dictates of the religion he believes in. We're dealing with issues of faith here, so believing in souls and eternal damnation doesn't require proof. There is no Constitutional mandate which declares that in contests between faith and verifiable facts, that verifiable facts shall always trump faith and can be imposed on the faithful against their will.

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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    The test is: "what would a reasonable person do?" It is reasonable for children to go swimming but it is not reasonable to do so without supervision. The vast majority of people, by far, would NOT allow a child to die.
    This amounts to a Heckler's veto. Let's see how that plays out. The vast majority of people oppose Woman A having an abortion, so the will of the people must win out.

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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    But they also have the explicit RESPONSIBILITY to make good decisions and care for their children as well. Nobody seems to remember that part.
    re making good decisions on behalf of their children:
    and as parents, they believe they have done so
    they subscribe to a faith which believes in the healing power of prayer
    and while they are in the distinct minority (fortunately) who believe that, because their religious credo is different than others of us does not mean they are not entitled to practice their own faith. it's established by the bill of rights
    these parents appear to genuinely to believe in the medicinal power of prayer
    and in these two instances that approach failed
    but medical approaches fail, too
    and who among us can establish with 100% accuracy that the power of prayer does not work
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    I may be wrong, I mean I may stand before you in six months and say, ĎHey I was wrong.' I donít know that Iíll ever admit that, but Iíll find some kind of an excuse. ~ tRump
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