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Thread: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

  1. #91
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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    This couple should have prayed, but also should have had enough discernment to realize that no where in the Bible does it mention not using doctors. In fact, Luke who wrote the 3rd Gospel was a physician.

    It is not inconsistent with prayer to do all a person can do besides. That includes seeking medical care when appropriate.

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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryChinaski View Post
    The refused to seek medical attention for life threatening yet treatable conditions. They allowed their children to die due to neglect. Clear as crystal there buddy.
    Wrong. No neglect was present in this case. What is present is a decision which you disagree with. There is a significant difference.
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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    The first baby died of pneumonia, and it looks as if the second (yes...second) died of that as well. Pneumonia, if you recall, is treatable. People tend not to get killed or maimed by going to the doctor for pneumonia.

    Considering that the pastor has said outright that the parents would not seek treatment even if the same thing happened with their third baby (shudder), then this really isn't the thread for you to hang that particular hat on.

    You are holding what is popularly known as "an indefensible position." Time to move along.
    You are hanging your hat on the fact there was neglect. There is no hook for which your hat can hang. There was no neglect. it cannot be proven. Medicine is known as a the practice of such, for a reason. It improves your odds of recovering sometimes significantly. It can also decrease your odds of survival too. Its a double edge sword, very much unlike what is being presented by other posters and yourself.
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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    So what you are saying here is that the children are their parents property. Would you draw the line at religious sacrifice? What is the difference? I would also bet that you oppose abortion, but I could be wrong.
    I've answered these questions already, but for your edification I will give the short versions. Abortions are FAMILY decisions. Children are property legally speaking like livestock or pets, with the same rights and responsibilities. Religious sacrifice would be murder and it is unlawful, unless said sacrifice was of age and consented willingly in which case be my guest.
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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    Wrong. No neglect was present in this case. What is present is a decision which you disagree with. There is a significant difference.
    Clear neglect. They refused to act in the best interest of children who they are responsible for. This is no different than allowing them to starve to death or refusing to provide them with clothing and sending them out into the elements and they freeze to death. It's neglect.
    Give a man a fish and he can eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he can sit in a boat, drinking beer all day while you fool around with his Woman.

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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Texmex View Post
    This couple should have prayed, but also should have had enough discernment to realize that no where in the Bible does it mention not using doctors. In fact, Luke who wrote the 3rd Gospel was a physician.

    It is not inconsistent with prayer to do all a person can do besides. That includes seeking medical care when appropriate.
    unfortunately, these parents do not subscribe to YOUR religious views
    but just as you are entitled to your own personal religious beliefs, these parents are entitled to those which differ from yours and mine
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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryChinaski View Post
    Clear neglect. They refused to act in the best interest of children who they are responsible for. This is no different than allowing them to starve to death or refusing to provide them with clothing and sending them out into the elements and they freeze to death. It's neglect.
    Wrong. They WERE acting in the best interests of the children as THEY the parents saw them. You see them differently. This is not neglect even remotely.
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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryChinaski View Post
    Clear neglect.
    nope. these parents acted consistent with their personal faith. they sought healing thru religious prayer

    and we must admit that there are times when medical intervention is unsuccessful. why do you not permit the possibility that sometimes religious prayer is similarly unsuccessful in promoting healing

    They refused to act in the best interest of children who they are responsible for.
    again, that is certainly not true
    they believed - differently than you and i believe - that prayer heals the sick
    they believed prayer was in the best interest of their sick children
    while you and i do not subscribe to that belief, the parents have a right to hold and act upon their OWN personal religious beliefs. which they did


    This is no different than allowing them to starve to death or refusing to provide them with clothing and sending them out into the elements and they freeze to death. It's neglect.
    this is very much not the same thing
    deal with the matter at hand rather than constructing strawmen, which have no bearing in this matter
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    nope. these parents acted consistent with their personal faith. they sought healing thru religious prayer

    and we must admit that there are times when medical intervention is unsuccessful. why do you not permit the possibility that sometimes religious prayer is similarly unsuccessful in promoting healing


    again, that is certainly not true
    they believed - differently than you and i believe - that prayer heals the sick
    they believed prayer was in the best interest of their sick children
    while you and i do not subscribe to that belief, the parents have a right to hold and act upon their OWN personal religious beliefs. which they did



    this is very much not the same thing
    deal with the matter at hand rather than constructing strawmen, which have no bearing in this matter
    DENYING them medical treatment for treatable life saving illnesses IS NOT acting in their best interest and IS neglect and the court agrees with that fact. They are irresponsible and UNFIT parent's. They used zero common sense and they have two dead children because of that lack of common sense.

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    Re: Pa. couple face prison after sons' prayer deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    I've answered these questions already, but for your edification I will give the short versions. Abortions are FAMILY decisions. Children are property legally speaking like livestock or pets, with the same rights and responsibilities. Religious sacrifice would be murder and it is unlawful, unless said sacrifice was of age and consented willingly in which case be my guest.
    Thanks for the reply and the clarifications. Sorry, I was not aware of the prior answers.

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