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Thread: Fraternity expels 3 linked to statue noose, suspends Ole Miss chapter

  1. #61
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    Re: Fraternity expels 3 linked to statue noose, suspends Ole Miss chapter

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I don't buy that. Being disciplined for defacing a statue, burning a cross, things like that are certainly not violating one's 1st Amendment Rights. They had the right to SAY what they pleased. They crossed that line.
    Was there any permanent damage done to the statue? If not, then there is no vandalism.

    Using your logic, would you agree that someone defacing a statue, on campus, of Robert E. Lee, or Nathan Bedford Forrest should be punished similarly?

    Double standards are what The Civil Rights Movement was fighting against. Supporting double standards pisses on the whole notion of The Civil Rights Movement.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Fraternity expels 3 linked to statue noose, suspends Ole Miss chapter

    Quote Originally Posted by the_recruit View Post
    You're surprised these states show signs of racial intolerance? Are you surprised when water is wet too?
    The question is why there is a relationship. Why does discord increase as the size of the black population increases? Weren't Virginia and South Carolina in the Old South alongside Mississippi and Alabama and didn't they all share some common culture? So why a correlation?

    It's self-evident that a homogenous society isn't going to have much racial division - there's nothing to divide.
    It's not as self-evident as you imagine. It's quite possible for a mostly homogeneous society to have a virulent reaction to a small minority community - say what happens when Gypsies arrive into town. Or maybe not. Liberals imagine that there should be no racial division in a very multicultural society.

    Your criticism presumes exactly what social science reports - introduce racial diversity and division will increase. So if you already understand this, then I didn't tell you anything new. If you were a liberal who believed that there was no connection between racial diversity and division in society, then I would have been telling you something not self-evident. You understand that point, right?

    That doesn't mean that homogenous societies are necessarily more racially tolerant.
    Of course it doesn't. The people who live in liberal whiteopias rarely get to test their racial tolerance, unlike the people in live in very diverse states like Mississippi.

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    Re: Fraternity expels 3 linked to statue noose, suspends Ole Miss chapter

    Quote Originally Posted by BMCM View Post
    It is Mississippi, a solid red state so no real surprise there.
    There may be a correlation, yes, but I don't think it's as strong as we liberals perceive. Every single white American is vulnerable to engaging in racism and thus must look within himself or herself to weed out any racism that may (and probably does) still exist.
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
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    Re: Fraternity expels 3 linked to statue noose, suspends Ole Miss chapter

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    There may be a correlation, yes, but I don't think it's as strong as we liberals perceive. Every single white American is vulnerable to engaging in racism and thus must look within himself or herself to weed out any racism that may (and probably does) still exist.
    Every single American, regardless of race, is vulnerable to engaging in racism. Why do you hold white folks to a different standard? Why do you assume that whites are racist--anymore than any other race? Is it because of racism?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  5. #65
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    Re: Fraternity expels 3 linked to statue noose, suspends Ole Miss chapter

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    It makes it an accident VS intentional. It can make a world of difference. Imagine if my husband accidentally hurt me VS intentionally hurt me. One is 'no biggie, you didn't mean to' and the other is '**** off - I'm leaving'

    Intent matters a lot in our country in a variety of ways.

    By expelling the students I believe they're saying that the 'intent was to be hateful - not just silly'
    I will ask you the same question I asked the Recruit. If I'm in the kitchen with someone, I lose my balance and bump into them, and they fall on the stove and burn their hand, does the fact that it was unintentional make it hurt any less?

    Quote Originally Posted by StringBean View Post
    So every comedian who made a racial joke is guilty of racism, though their intent was obviously in jest.

    /snooze
    Do not insert words into my mouth. "Racial" and "racist" are not the same thing. Racial jokes are risky territory for comedians, yes, but they are not necessarily racist.

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Pull up a definition of racism and explain how this action meets the definition of racism.

    It certainly meets the definition of insensitive, thoughtless, provocative, but not racist.
    So you want me to provide a definition of "racism," but before I even do that, you preemptively claim that this incident was not racist? That's a rather strange debate tactic you are using.

    Quote Originally Posted by the_recruit View Post
    Nope
    Exactly. So it is with racism. Whether they meant to be racist means absolutely nothing. Whether they were being racist is what counts.

    and where did you blah blah blah blah
    Stop. Your direct answer was sufficient. You do not need to try to justify their acts.
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
    "Innocent until proven guilty is for criminal convictions, not elections." --Mitt Romney

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    Re: Fraternity expels 3 linked to statue noose, suspends Ole Miss chapter

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    So you want me to provide a definition of "racism," but before I even do that, you preemptively claim that this incident was not racist? That's a rather strange debate tactic you are using.
    Why is that strange to you? Oh, I get it, you thought I was asking you to pull up a definition so that I could learn the definition. No, that would be a crazy request. If I wanted to refresh my memory on the definition then I could just look for myself and not bother with asking you to look for my benefit.

    I asked you to look it up because you were misusing the term and thought that YOU could use a refresher.

    Understand now?

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    Re: Fraternity expels 3 linked to statue noose, suspends Ole Miss chapter

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Why is that strange to you? Oh, I get it, you thought I was asking you to pull up a definition so that I could learn the definition. No, that would be a crazy request. If I wanted to refresh my memory on the definition then I could just look for myself and not bother with asking you to look for my benefit.

    I asked you to look it up because you were misusing the term and thought that YOU could use a refresher.

    Understand now?
    Are you here to have an honest debate, or are you just trying to talk down to me? Methinks your justification for your white privilege is being challenged, and you are deeply offended by that. This is a VERY common reaction from whites when confronted with racism.
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
    "Innocent until proven guilty is for criminal convictions, not elections." --Mitt Romney

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    Re: Fraternity expels 3 linked to statue noose, suspends Ole Miss chapter

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Are you here to have an honest debate, or are you just trying to talk down to me? Methinks your justification for your white privilege is being challenged, and you are deeply offended by that. This is a VERY common reaction from whites when confronted with racism.
    he's trying to talk down to you and anyone else he can get his hands on.
    Last edited by opendebate; 02-23-14 at 11:19 PM.
    "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers" - Voltaire
    "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow men. True nobility lies in being superior to your former self" -Hemingway

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    Re: Fraternity expels 3 linked to statue noose, suspends Ole Miss chapter

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    he's just trying to talk down to you and anyone else he can get his hands on.
    Indeed. But the exposition of his white privilege is worth a temporary aggravation. After all, my white privilege allows me to leave this thread--and this issue--at any time. People of color do not have that privilege.
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
    "Innocent until proven guilty is for criminal convictions, not elections." --Mitt Romney

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    Re: Fraternity expels 3 linked to statue noose, suspends Ole Miss chapter

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Are you here to have an honest debate, or are you just trying to talk down to me? Methinks your justification for your white privilege is being challenged, and you are deeply offended by that. This is a VERY common reaction from whites when confronted with racism.
    If you want an honest debate then you should debate honestly. Don't make up definitions for words, read honestly what your interlocutor writes, and don't insult the good faith of others when they challenge you by accurately responding to what you have written.

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