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FBI: Men tried to buy bombs for government attack

j-mac said:
LOL, so you can't point to what I asked you because you made it up...And to answer your question, yes I have heard of Left wing militia's in America....Surely you've heard of the New Black Panthers?
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Yep - have they ever labeled themselves a a "militia"? Pray tell me, how many members are to be found in the NBP? A group which the original Black Panther members have rejected as being nothing more than publicity hungry moochers.
 
j-mac said:
LOL, so you can't point to what I asked you because you made it up...And to answer your question, yes I have heard of Left wing militia's in America....Surely you've heard of the New Black Panthers?
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Or Bill Ayers and the Weatherman, still popular in some quarters today.
 
j-mac said:
It's pretty simple, all you have to do is show where they said they were members of any militia, or right wing...I'll wait...
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A little more reading help...
Peace allegedly encouraged members of his militia to review guerrilla warfare tactics, accumulate supplies and prepare their families. He told them that "guerilla (sic) warfare primary targets included TSA, DHS, non-emergency FEMA, road blocks, etc."
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Gimmesometruth said:
Hmmm...sounds like they were not new to the whole militia thingy...
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I don't know if they are, or are not...Or, if they are just sympathetic to the militia causes....But, I don't assume, apparently you do.

I'm still waiting on any sort of wager from you...
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I am not much of a gambler, so you might be waiting a long time....

..or are you locked into a "they are NOT right wing"?
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Again, don't know if they are, or are not....But your willingness to jump straight to that conclusion says much about you.

If so, when I or anyone else show they are in fact right wing....what will you do?
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Probably be honest enough to realize that their are extremists on both sides of the political spectrum, and be glad they were caught, also I will be glad that I didn't speculate as to whom people are, and what political bull **** I can stir up by equating rational people to extremists for the sake of getting a good jab in....;)
 
Somerville said:
So a group that died out 40 years ago is to be compared with these three nutters simply because you can't find anything more recent? Interesting
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How's this for recent?

Why did the Occupy Wall Street protests turn violent and not the Tea Party protests? | Ordinary Times

But we do know of Barrack Obama's ties to Bill Ayers, his influence in American Universities, and his lack of remorse for his crimes. The crimes may have been committed some time ago but the thinking behind them continues.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
A little more reading help...
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Ok, so you have determined that Peace considered himself some kind of militia member...What militia? How many members are there? What about the other two, markedly younger than Peace? Keep going....
 
j-mac said:
I don't know if they are, or are not...Or, if they are just sympathetic to the militia causes....But, I don't assume, apparently you do.
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I just posted that T.E. Peace IS a militia member.

Again, if you want to bet against the proposition that these white Georgian militia members are right wingers, I'm still willing to accept a wager.



I am not much of a gambler, so you might be waiting a long time....
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I can see why that is, especially in this case.



Again, don't know if they are, or are not....But your willingness to jump straight to that conclusion says much about you.
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I have not made a complete determination as of yet, I'm still trying to find definitive proof BEYOND the single article....but again, the odds are in favor of the idea that these white Georgian militia members are in fact RWers.



Probably be honest enough to realize that their are extremists on both sides of the political spectrum, and be glad they were caught, also I will be glad that I didn't speculate as to whom people are, and what political bull **** I can stir up by equating rational people to extremists for the sake of getting a good jab in....;)
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And yet here you are producing straw by implying I have not acknowledged extremists on either side....while you are speculating on what they MIGHT NOT be.

You are not interested in finding out what their political orientation IS.
 
j-mac said:
Ok, so you have determined that Peace considered himself some kind of militia member...What militia? How many members are there? What about the other two, markedly younger than Peace? Keep going....
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To what end? Your first speculation that they were NOT militia members has been shown as false.....and I will find for myself what orientation they are....but as I said, you are not interested in finding out for yourself.....and you can't say anything beyond meaningless rhetoric what you will do if it is shown that they are in fact RWers.

Your argument is already very damaged.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
I just posted that T.E. Peace IS a militia member.
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And I gave you Peace....Now show the other two...They could just be dupes...You ought to know about that....:mrgreen:

I have not made a complete determination as of yet, I'm still trying to find definitive proof BEYOND the single article....but again, the odds are in favor of the idea that these white Georgian militia members are in fact RWers.
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Oh, so because you think so, that means you don't need proof I guess....:roll:

And yet here you are producing straw by implying I have not acknowledged extremists on either side....while you are speculating on what they MIGHT NOT be.

You are not interested in finding out what their political orientation IS.
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I specifically said that I didn't know whether they were, or not...Why are you know lying about me? And to boot speculating about what I am interested in, instead using your own assumptions....So typical. :roll:
 
j-mac said:
And I gave you Peace....Now show the other two...They could just be dupes...You ought to know about that....:mrgreen:
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Yes, when your argument crumbles, baiting is a good refuge.

I know you will squeal at the the thought that the other two are in fact associates of T.E. Peace.....but then again I did actually read and comprehend the OP.



Oh, so because you think so, that means you don't need proof I guess....:roll:
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FFS...I don't know how you missed this part:

"I have not made a complete determination as of yet, I'm still trying to find definitive proof BEYOND the single article"


I specifically said that I didn't know whether they were, or not..
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The fact is that you questioned the supposition that they are RW....your whole argument with me is about determining whether they are RW.

Your argument can't change mid stream, can it?



.Why are you know lying about me?
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I think it is funny that as a con, you took offense to the proposition that these domestic terrorists are RWers....and yet now in the face of the fact that they are militia members, you have lowered your argument to complaints about me "lying" about YOUR position in this thread.

Too frigging funny!

What will be the next tangent to distract from your failing argument?


And to boot speculating about what I am interested in, instead using your own assumptions....So typical. :roll:
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Um, your technique here is to have me show you proof, not you bringing forth fact.

You decided how you would argue....not me.
 
Somerville said:
Yep - have they ever labeled themselves a a "militia"? Pray tell me, how many members are to be found in the NBP? A group which the original Black Panther members have rejected as being nothing more than publicity hungry moochers.
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Speaking of numbers there are three members of this alleged 'militia', certainly less than were ever in the BPP.

They don't really fit into the definition of militia either. mi·li·ti - məˈliSHə/
noun
1.a military force that is raised from the civil population to supplement a regular army in an emergency.
 
Deuce said:
Yes it is.
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Murder is the unjustifiable killing of another human being. War is the use of controlled violence to achieve an objective. Therefore, during war, even revolution, the use of force, i.e., killing human beings is justified and therefore, by definition not murder. Unless of course the killing had nothing to do with achieving objectives, in which case, yes it is murder.
 
Grant said:
Speaking of numbers there are three members of this alleged 'militia', certainly less than were ever in the BPP.

They don't really fit into the definition of militia either. mi·li·ti - məˈliSHə/
noun
1.a military force that is raised from the civil population to supplement a regular army in an emergency.
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Um, the three white Georgian militia members have defined themselves and the groups they associate with.

If you are new to the concept of RW militia groups, particularly those in the South, there are lots of resources available to bring you up to date.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
Can a society be a supporter of both liberty and equality? Is equality inherently immoral?
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No, and yes. There are an infinite number of differences between any two people, let alone millions or billions of people. In order to "support equality", you must put people into boxes that, A- They don't belong in and, B- They don't want to be in.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Um, the three white Georgian militia members have defined themselves and the groups they associate with.
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They have defined themselves? And you believe and allow them that leeway?

If you are new to the concept of RW militia groups, particularly those in the South, there are lots of resources available to bring you up to date.
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Do they follow the definition of 'militia' or is this the what they prefer to call themselves, making themselves sounding more adventuresome and powerful than 'Hillbillies Seeking Bombs'. If there are these militia groups, as you say, why haven't they been arrested? Or are they just harmless yahoos?
 
Grant said:
They have defined themselves? And you believe and allow them that leeway?
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Um, since the CONTEXT is whether they are militia members (which they already have admitted to) as understood today as being part of the anti-govt paramilitary "militia movement" in the US....then YES.

And it doesn't even matter if they define themselves, we have already defined what the militia movement since the 90's is.

Again, take advantage of online resources.



Do they follow the definition of 'militia' or is this the what they prefer to call themselves, making themselves sounding more adventuresome and powerful than 'Hillbillies Seeking Bombs'. If there are these militia groups, as you say, why haven't they been arrested? Or are they just harmless yahoos?
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Um...these members were arrested.

Hello...is this thing on?
 
RiverDad said:
Can one person make a difference to the path that a society takes? Those people that Brevik murdered were all deeply committed socialists intent on furthering the destruction of his society. The reports indicated that there were quite a number of talented youths at that camp.

If people really are cogs and all of us are easily replaceable, then Brevik's crime would have no impact beyond the personal tragedies he inflicted. However, if individuals of talent cannot be easily replaced, then Brevik very likely altered the path that Norway is now following and will follow in the future, for those youth leaders won't be around to lead and their substitutes won't be as effective or as charismatic or as influential.

Brevik thought he was at war. Was his crime an effective strike at his enemy or wasn't it?
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'Ya know. I don't like bankers. I think I'll go out and kill some of them. I don't like the Koch brothers. I think I'll kill them too. Come to think of it, I don't like panhandlers. I think I'll kill 'em all. I kill 'em all in the name of freedom. Praise Jesus. :mrgreen:
 
danarhea said:
'Ya know. I don't like bankers. I think I'll go out and kill some of them. I don't like the Koch brothers. I think I'll kill them too. Come to think of it, I don't like panhandlers. I think I'll kill 'em all. I kill 'em all in the name of freedom. Praise Jesus. :mrgreen:
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If that is how you really feel about. Have fun. At least Texas has the death penalty and enforces it, so you won't have to languish in prison forever.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Um, since the CONTEXT is whether they are militia members (which they already have admitted to) as understood today as being part of the anti-govt paramilitary "militia movement" in the US....then YES.

And it doesn't even matter if they define themselves, we have already defined what the militia movement since the 90's is.
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Who is we? It seems to me that calling them 'militia groups' adds a lot of unwarranted credibility to these yahoos and makes them sound more dangerous than they are.

Again, take advantage of online resources.


Um...these members were arrested.

Hello...is this thing on?
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Yes, these members were arrested but you said "If you are new to the concept of RW militia groups, particularly those in the South, there are lots of resources available to bring you up to date". My question was obviously not directed to those who were already arrested, as a re-read will demonstrate, but as to why these other 'militia groups in the south' haven't been arrested.

Also, what makes them 'right wing". Are they for a balanced budget amendment?
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RiverDad said:
That's the message that you took from my post? You really do have a stupendous talent for reading between the lines material that simply isn't there and that other people don't see.

Terrorists want to be effective. Don't they? They usually have a goal in mind. Don't they?




Was Brevik effective or not?




Note, the question I ask you doesn't have any lines above or below it, it's a simple 5 word question so it's impossible to read between the lines. I'm not asking you whether what Brevik did was moral, whether it should be legal, whether he should have done some things differently, or anything else you might imagine that I'm asking you. Brevik murdered the most promising stars of the rising socialist generation in Norway. Did he damage that movement or not? Remember, he had some goal in mind when he committed his act of terror.
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Does it matter if it was effective? Murder is murder whether or not it's "effective."
 
Grant said:
Most murderers hope to cause an effect of one sort or another. It's often called a "motive".
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Please take the time to read the post I was replying to.

He wanted to know if I thought Brevik was "effective" in his aims. I don't care, what he did was wrong, whatever his motive was.
 
rocket88 said:
Please take the time to read the post I was replying to.

He wanted to know if I thought Brevik was "effective" in his aims. I don't care, what he did was wrong, whatever his motive was.
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Yes, murdering children is wrong. Good observation.

Was Brevik effective? Or, in other words, was he successful in carrying out his motive.

I don't think he was because, as even you noted, murdering children is wrong. Although some think that it's okay if they are young enough.
 
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