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Thread: Pentegon set to release new cuts to Active Duty

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    Re: Pentegon set to release new cuts to Active Duty

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Then that means you start a war, very bad idea. You don't have to worry about winning a war if you don't attack somebody and start a war.
    I didn't know we started WWII...

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    Re: Pentegon set to release new cuts to Active Duty

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    I was in for 11 years. I have also seen government waste elsewhere. In reality, the military probably wastes less of a percentage of it's money than other government bureaucracies.

    How many other government bureaucracies have you seen first hand?
    Did you ever make it to Iraq or Astan. Those places make all the rest of the waste I have seen the army do look like peanuts.

    As to others that I have seen first hand only from some inlaws the awesomeness that is the welfare system. I have spent a fair amount of time learning about others

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    Re: Pentegon set to release new cuts to Active Duty

    Quote Originally Posted by braindrain View Post
    Did you ever make it to Iraq or Astan. Those places make all the rest of the waste I have seen the army do look like peanuts.

    As to others that I have seen first hand only from some inlaws the awesomeness that is the welfare system.
    You can expect all kinds of waste during war. Sorry, I get out until after the cold war ended. They replaced my job with civilians since the security levels were no longer needed. I didn't like my choices for MOS changes available, so in '92, I took the $28k bonus to get out. I did see some extra waste during Desert Storm, but wasn't there.

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    Re: Pentegon set to release new cuts to Active Duty

    how about we cut chuck hagels pay, health benefits and retirement. I mean after all a soldier has to serve 20 years for a pension and a congressman 5.
    I think we should switch them the solders get the better pay and benefits like hagel gets and hagel if he can make it has to serve 20+ years to get a small pension.

    as for pay hagel can get enlisted pay.

    I am all for cleaning up the spending going on in the military, but not on the backs of our soldiers.

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    Re: Pentegon set to release new cuts to Active Duty

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    how about we cut chuck hagels pay, health benefits and retirement. I mean after all a soldier has to serve 20 years for a pension and a congressman 5.
    I think we should switch them the solders get the better pay and benefits like hagel gets and hagel if he can make it has to serve 20+ years to get a small pension.

    as for pay hagel can get enlisted pay.

    I am all for cleaning up the spending going on in the military, but not on the backs of our soldiers.
    Being in congress was never meant to be a career. They shouldn't get a pension.

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    Re: Pentegon set to release new cuts to Active Duty

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    Being in congress was never meant to be a career. They shouldn't get a pension.
    ahh but they do and hagel makes over 100k a year serving as a congressman. plus all the other perks he gets.
    you only have to serve 5 years a s congressman to get a pension. soldier 20 years.

    sad but true. maybe hagel should think on that before trying to cut out our soldiers.

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    Re: Pentegon set to release new cuts to Active Duty

    This should be of interest:

    Congressional Salaries and Allowances

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    Re: Pentegon set to release new cuts to Active Duty

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    To keep referring to the next generation military equipment as "toys" makes me wonder whether you really do agree with me. Vast technological superiority IS the deterrence I was speaking about. It's not total troops (China and North Korea trounce us), it is the huge gap between US military technology and everyone else.

    As for the soldiers pay, it is really a separate issue. Ask the soldier on the front line if he would give up hellfire missile support for an extra $50 in his paycheck.

    Yes, paying soldiers more is a noble goal that I support, but not at the cost of technological superiority that helps the US keep those soldiers alive both on the battlefield and by keeping them off the battlefield all together through deterrence.

    These aren't "toys".
    well in reference to your next gen tech,most of it is just toys.

    for example the m4's they are replacing m16's with have no standard while the m16 has to be built to a specific pattern,all m16's fire the same,but m4's vary wildly depending on who built them,varying in accuracy,trigger pull,wieght distribution etc.

    another is our matv trucks,almost everyone i know in line units hates them with a passion,they are trucks that cant carry any cargo,troop carriers that can barely hold troops,and armored patrol vehicles with windows so small patrols become difficult.the only people ive seen like them were fobbits.oh and they tend to break down more often than they run.


    another is the maxppro mrap,its an armored troop carrier,but has no way to secure gear,short of making your own mans,which then uses room to carry troops.it also is horrible offroad and super easy to flip,its like the person who designed it believed all combat zones woukld occur on pavement and that ied's would never be used to flip them,basically self defeating.


    last example,the acu uniform,it uses velcro which is great at alerting enemy forces,its camo patter worked ok in iraq in light colored sand,but failed horribly everywhere else except urban environments outside the middle east.the pattern was so bad that literally every fob had gravel matching to it put in so it blended into something.the army research facility even admitted it was selected without trials,despite evidence showing it was among the worst possible candidates,while at the same time multicam rated very high because its ability to atleast perform decent in all environment,even though sspecialized camo was better to a specific environment.
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    Re: Pentegon set to release new cuts to Active Duty

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    All the equipment in the world is useless without the manpower to use it.
    I think that is what the discussion is - equipment vs manpower. You spend vast amounts on equipment as it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    Partially because we protect our allies that don't spend so much
    They tend to spend what they can - 2% of GDP as opposed to the US' 4%. You could and should simply demand that NATO countries take a greater burden. If more European nations (Denmark / Belgium / Germany etc) spent the same proportion as France and the UK you wouldn't need to run bases in Europe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    How much do the people making military equipment in China make vs. our union labor in Boeing et al?
    Manufacture is being shipped back to the West from China due to higher labour costs in China so that doesn't account for the vast difference.

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    Re: Pentegon set to release new cuts to Active Duty

    I am totally against cutting pay/benefits to soldiers...that is just asinine.

    But I am also totally for drastic cuts to the size of the U.S. military.

    America is broke, still running massive deficits, has a (IMO) stagnating economy and is involved in no declared wars or even a Cold War...there is no excuse for the staggering amounts of money being thrown at the military industrial complex (so much for Ike's warning).

    I say slash the military to a tiny full time, huge reserve armed forces...and slash the military budget with it (though keep up R/D spending and low rate production of high tech weapons systems).

    But do not decrease full time pay/benefits...if anything, increase them.

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