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Thread: Ukraine crisis: Opposition asserts authority in Kiev

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    Re: Ukraine crisis: Opposition asserts authority in Kiev

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallenangel View Post
    I'm sure you managed to demonstrate it very well to your self in your own personal virtual reality.
    However, real people that actually understand the situation in Ukraine are far from being as ignorant of reality as you.

    So...how about them Ukrainian studies, too hard?...cause I see you're still failing every exam and class. Keep working hard, I'm sure eventually you'd get it.

    Fallen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    You see, if this would be in a vacuum, I would agree with you, but as it isn't, because I take into consideration the rest of the comments you made, at least in the last 3 pages, while theoretically you know what you're talking about, in practice, you don't.

    So now there is an interim govt, headed as president by the senate majority leader which was part of the opposition until now.

    The question is the following: will he safeguard the elections to come or "manipulate" the votes or the electorate? I have stated, for the last 3 months, ever since this thing started, that if the places were reversed, and the opposition had been the ruling party, they too would have fought tooth and nail to remain in power and nothing would have been different. The opposition is no better than the others... they're all mostly cut from the same cloth.

    We saw this not too long ago with the rise and swift fall of the "orange revolution" to which Tymoshenko, I feel, contributed the most to it's downfall, the movement that rose her to power, she killed it quickly because she sold out ukraine's interests, just like Yanukovych did 3 months ago.

    So while people are now optimistic in the streets of Kiev, who wouldn't be after what happened Friday... reality will set in on monday morning rather brutally and a new set of challenges await... for both the electorate, especially for them... and for the now ruling govt and the political class... what will they do? will they continue to be corrupt or will they reform their ways? The opposition (now sort of in power) is almost just as bad as the ruling party (not so much ruling anymore... but still kinda). The problem with political parties is that if they all are rotten, no matter who you vote for, you'll still end up nowhere.

    Faith alone is not sufficient to contribute to this thread effectively. If you are unaware of what has happened in the post-soviet era, you cannot effectively make informed posts in this thread, which for the last 2-3 pages, you haven't. It's been a penis-measuring contest between you and fallen, with you being the one with the wooden penis. Sure, it may seem longer, but at the end of the day, it's just an illusion.
    I don't know whether ignorance or resignation is worse. You two represent both. The former opposition, now the government, is not made up entirely of angels, and Ukrainians' hopes have come to nothing before. The difference this time is the thorough discrediting of the Putin faction and the outstretched hand of the EU. Nonetheless much of modern Ukraine's political division reflects cultural and geographic divergences that have not gone away. It is therefore quite possible that the east will reject the new government and there will be enough room for the pro-Putin party to mount a credible campaign. My guess would be that they will fall short if the election really comes soon. I also suspect that west Ukraine would more likely secede and form a new state than live again under a pro-Putin regime. It will be bumpy ride regardless.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Ukraine crisis: Opposition asserts authority in Kiev

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallenangel View Post
    What good reason?!? Being Nazi apologist like you?!?
    There is a good reason to stop the apology of communist crimes and to debunk their lies.

    And it is a good thing to remove the monuments of communist murderers and liars.

    BTW, I am not a "Nazi-apologist", I am just a truth seeker and I hate lies and liars.

    Stupid communists always called their opponents "Nazis", but that could not save their Empire of Evil from collapse.

    And calling the opposition in the Ukraine "Nazis" and "Anti-Semites" did not help, either.

    Calling a spade a spade, concerning the Katyn massacre, was also called "Nazi apology".

    But the truth about the Katyn massacre (despite the help of the Western allies to perpetuate the Soviet lie about the Katyn) eventually became known to everybody.

    Several memorials of the massacre have been erected worldwide. During the Cold War, the British government objected to plans to build a major Katyn monument in the UK.[115][116][117] The Soviet Union did not want the Katyn massacre to be remembered, and demanded that the British government prevent the erection of the monument.[117][118][e] The British government did not want to antagonize the Soviets...

    Katyn massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    We know today, that Communists and their western allies were the liars, and that National Socialists told the truth in this case.

    Well, I am concerned about the truth.

    If Communists lied about some events, and National Socialists told the truth, well, then advocating the truth does not mean "Nazi apology", it means "truth apology" and debunking the lies.

    Can you get my drift?

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    Re: Ukraine crisis: Opposition asserts authority in Kiev

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    I don't know whether ignorance or resignation is worse. You two represent both. The former opposition, now the government, is not made up entirely of angels, and Ukrainians' hopes have come to nothing before. The difference this time is the thorough discrediting of the Putin faction and the outstretched hand of the EU. Nonetheless much of modern Ukraine's political division reflects cultural and geographic divergences that have not gone away. It is therefore quite possible that the east will reject the new government and there will be enough room for the pro-Putin party to mount a credible campaign. My guess would be that they will fall short if the election really comes soon. I also suspect that west Ukraine would more likely secede and form a new state than live again under a pro-Putin regime. It will be bumpy ride regardless.
    Wow Jack I see that you actually did some studying, congrats. Unfortunately you get only B- due to the multiple references to amorphous ideals, and some "non existing pro-Putin party". Keep working on these books, maybe in few weeks from now you'd get an A.

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    Re: Ukraine crisis: Opposition asserts authority in Kiev

    Could you guys start your own thread to hurl insults at each other?

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    Re: Ukraine crisis: Opposition asserts authority in Kiev

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallenangel View Post
    Wow Jack I see that you actually did some studying, congrats. Unfortunately you get only B- due to the multiple references to amorphous ideals, and some "non existing pro-Putin party". Keep working on these books, maybe in few weeks from now you'd get an A.

    Fallen.
    "The dogs may bark, but the caravan moves on."
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Ukraine crisis: Opposition asserts authority in Kiev

    Quote Originally Posted by SBu View Post
    Could you guys start your own thread to hurl insults at each other?
    I'm not the one doing the insulting, but I take your point.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Ukraine crisis: Opposition asserts authority in Kiev

    Quote Originally Posted by Art_Allm View Post
    There is a good reason to stop the apology of communist crimes and to debunk their lies.

    And it is a good thing to remove the monuments of communist murderers and liars.

    BTW, I am not a "Nazi-apologist", I am just a truth seeker and I hate lies and liars.

    Stupid communists always called their opponents "Nazis", but that could not save their Empire of Evil from collapse.

    And calling the opposition in the Ukraine "Nazis" and "Anti-Semites" did not help, either.

    Calling a spade a spade, concerning the Katyn massacre, was also called "Nazi apology".

    But the truth about the Katyn massacre (despite the help of the Western allies to perpetuate the Soviet lie about the Katyn) eventually became known to everybody.




    We know today, that Communists and their western allies were the liars, and that National Socialists told the truth in this case.

    Well, I am concerned about the truth.

    If Communists lied about some events, and National Socialists told the truth, well, then advocating the truth does not mean "Nazi apology", it means "truth apology" and debunking the lies.

    Can you get my drift?
    And...here you go slide into another huge unrelated topic as you did in the History thread.

    I also like how you again, dishonestly mine-quoted my original post, as here is what I actually written.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fallenangel View Post
    What good reason?!? Being Nazi apologist like you?!?

    For the good and the bad it is part of their history, if they don't want them anymore they can remove them.
    But they should not allow the likes of Pravy Sektor to dictate the future of Ukraine.

    Btw...I see you finally crawled out of the History sub-forum...I doubt that you managed to do any actual reading on warfare/tank warfare since though.
    I'm not a communist, and I have no problems admitting all the horrendous things that were done in and by USSR.
    However, dude you are a Nazi-apologist, admit it and live with it.


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    Re: Ukraine crisis: Opposition asserts authority in Kiev

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    "The dogs may bark, but the caravan moves on."
    Yeap, your moved on a long time ago. Wasn't it in 2009...lol

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    Re: Ukraine crisis: Opposition asserts authority in Kiev

    Quote Originally Posted by SBu View Post
    Could you guys start your own thread to hurl insults at each other?
    Sorry...Imo this thread is kinda lost anyways, but there are other on the same topic in the Europe section.

    Cheers,
    Fallen.
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    Re: Ukraine crisis: Opposition asserts authority in Kiev

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    The former opposition, now the government, is not made up entirely of angels, and Ukrainians' hopes have come to nothing before. The difference this time is the thorough discrediting of the Putin faction and the outstretched hand of the EU.
    The problem with Putin and his fraction was that they intended to perpetuate the old Soviet mythology about WWII.
    Ukrainians have their own national identity, they have their own national heroes that fought for the independence of their country during WWII.
    It is obvious that they would have collaborated with anybody who fought against the communists, because about 7 Million Ukrainians were killed during the Holodomor by Bolshevik thugs.

    It is stupid to call the Ukrainian national heroes "Nazis" and "Anti-Semites", that is old and you will not get any support among the ukrainian people if you chose this tactic.

    That was precisely what Putin and his fraction in the Ukraine did, but this only antagonised the Ukrainians.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Nonetheless much of modern Ukraine's political division reflects cultural and geographic divergences that have not gone away. It is therefore quite possible that the east will reject the new government and there will be enough room for the pro-Putin party to mount a credible campaign. My guess would be that they will fall short if the election really comes soon. I also suspect that west Ukraine would more likely secede and form a new state than live again under a pro-Putin regime. It will be bumpy ride regardless.
    Yes, the Crimea Peninsula is part of Russia, and there are a lot of Russian speakers in East Ukraine. Many of them were moved to Ukraine after the Holodomor, to replace the killed Ukrainians.

    I think that Kremlin will be happy with the split of Ukraine into two parts, and with the re-unification of Crimea with Russia.

    But the ruling American elite needs the Crimean Peninsula for another military base!

    They do not need Ukraine without the Crimean Peninsula, and the Kremlin will not give away Crimean Peninsula, because it is (a former) Part of Russia!

    That means that the conflict is only beginning.

    I guess that the West will try a coup against Putin, too. They will create an "Orange Revolution" in Russia, too.
    I can imagine that there will be barricades on the Red Square in a couple of month, and Putin will have to flee to North Korea.

    Putin has done a lot of good things to Russian people, he is a clever man. But is adversaries are even more clever, and they use diabolic tactics that Putin cannot even dream about.

    He believes that if he calls the opposition in the Ukraine "Nazis" and "Anti-Semites", then he can kind of reach an agreement with western powers, that the opposition is not "kosher" and shall not be supported.

    How stupid of Putin!

    That is not the way western elite conquers the world!



    Today Ukrainian allies of the West may become their enemies in a couple of years (like it was the case with Islamists that were used against the Soviet regime) and sued in Den Haag, but today the West will support "them Nazis" and "them Anti-Semites" (like the West supported "them Muslims" in the fight against the SU) to get Putin out of power, because Putin is the main obstacle to the agenda of globalists.
    Last edited by Art_Allm; 02-23-14 at 06:34 PM.

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