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Thread: Ukraine crisis: Opposition asserts authority in Kiev

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    Re: Ukraine crisis: Opposition asserts authority in Kiev

    Quote Originally Posted by SayMyName View Post
    And yet, elections are only a little over a year away. This has set a horrible precedent that in years to come, as political ideas sway, may see repeated over and over again. It is bad for democracy, and has only served the agents that give lip service to it.
    I think the biggest issue is the fact that polls show the nation split nearly in half. That said, its likely that with this sea change we will see more support for it (I think the demands are generally reasonable). Id hate to see a civil war between the east and west.

    Speaking politically, this is a chance for the west to diminish Russia's influence in the region. If the changes are successful, Ukraine could be a poster boy to other former soviet satellite states to embrace the west. Im reminded of Poland.

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    Re: Ukraine crisis: Opposition asserts authority in Kiev

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    I think the biggest issue is the fact that polls show the nation split nearly in half. That said, its likely that with this sea change we will see more support for it (I think the demands are generally reasonable). Id hate to see a civil war between the east and west.

    Speaking politically, this is a chance for the west to diminish Russia's influence in the region. If the changes are successful, Ukraine could be a poster boy to other former soviet satellite states to embrace the west. Im reminded of Poland.
    So, it is okay that the US, in your opinion, usurp other democratically elected governments by way of supporting mob actions and riots when they see those governments as not aligning themselves with what the US government wants?

    Does this not mean we surrender then any moral high ground as to representing freedom and democracy anywhere in the world?

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    Re: Ukraine crisis: Opposition asserts authority in Kiev

    Quote Originally Posted by SayMyName View Post
    So, it is okay that the US, in your opinion, usurp other democratically elected governments by way of supporting mob actions and riots when they see those governments as not aligning themselves with what the US government wants?

    Does this not mean we surrender then any moral high ground as to representing freedom and democracy anywhere in the world?
    WE arent usurping anyone, so drop the rhetoric.

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    Re: Ukraine crisis: Opposition asserts authority in Kiev

    Quote Originally Posted by SayMyName View Post
    What is horrible about all of this, especially for Ukraine and democracy, is that the President was elected democratically and is being threatened with removal by a mob. Despite what some say are drachonian attempts to quell the protests, new elections are only a year away. In the end, it must be asked if democracy is actually being served and if the people's will is not being allowed to be voice because street demonstrations took away the right of the people to be heard through the ballot box.

    As American's ask yourself, knowing our country in this day and age...would our government sit by passively, being democratically elected, and allow street demonstrations, mobs, and rioters topple it?....I don't think so.
    You are completely misrepresenting the situation. Doesn't it bother you to sit there and promote a total and utter lie about the situation in the Ukraine? Where do you come off pushing this bull****? Tymoshenko trial appears to have been politically motivated.
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    Re: Ukraine crisis: Opposition asserts authority in Kiev

    Quote Originally Posted by SayMyName View Post

    What is horrible about all of this, especially for Ukraine and democracy, is that the President was elected democratically and is being threatened with removal by a mob. Despite what some say are drachonian attempts to quell the protests, new elections are only a year away. In the end, it must be asked if democracy is actually being served and if the people's will is not being allowed to be voice because street demonstrations took away the right of the people to be heard through the ballot box.
    Democracy is only a buzz word. Who owns the media can easily stampede the voters in any needed direction.
    And if you have a lot of money, you can easily create any opposition that can easily remove the elected president.

    In the case of the Ukraine, this is a country separated by language and religion.

    Not all people who live in the Ukraine are Ukrainians.


    During the Holodomor Bolsheviks managed to starve 7 Million Christians to death in the Ukraine, and they replaced these killed Urianians with migrants from different places of the SU. These "new Ukrainians" do not speak the Ukrainian language, and they live in the eastern part of the Ukraine.

    During WWII why Ukrainians collaborated with the Third Reich, because Bolsheviks were their enemies.
    The "new Ukrainians" supported the Soviet Regime.

    After the collapse of the SU Ukrainians tried to write the true history about WWII, but the old Communists called them "Nazis" and "Anti-Semites", alluding to their collaboration with the Third Reich during WWII.

    Putin was foolish enough to support the old Soviet Mythology, he hoped that when the opposition to the existing regime is called "Anti-Semitic", then the west will not support it.

    How idiotic of Putin!

    The West will support with money ANY opposition, be they Islamists or Jew Haters. And after that the former allies will be executed by new allies.
    The next big uprising will be in Moscow, and Putin will pay for his foolishness.
    He believed that perpetuating the old Soviet Mythology will unite the former Soviet people.
    Putin had the chance to tell the truth about WWII, that would have united all honest people around him, but he preferred not to do this, supporting the old Soviet Mytholgy about "bad" Ukrainians, Estonians, Latvians, Chechens, Lithuanians, etc, who fought against Communists, and the good Communists who were fighting "Anti-Semites" and "Nazis".


    Quote Originally Posted by SayMyName View Post
    As American's ask yourself, knowing our country in this day and age...would our government sit by passively, being democratically elected, and allow street demonstrations, mobs, and rioters topple it?....I don't think so.
    Well, as already said, you can bend it like you want.

    If China becomes strong enough and decides to eliminate the USA, splitting this country in many parts, it will finance and support the opposition.

    If you have a lot of money and a lot of influence in the mass media, you can stampede enough people into the needed direction, paying them a lot of money and fooling them via the controlled media outlets.

    And if you own the main media, you can sell this revolt as something good, you will just call it "fight for freedom" or "fight for democracy".



    And who cares about a democratic election? You can say that the election was a fraud, and people will believe it.
    Last edited by Art_Allm; 02-23-14 at 07:21 AM.

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    Re: Ukraine crisis: Opposition asserts authority in Kiev



    Lenin statues toppled across Ukraine

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    Re: Ukraine crisis: Opposition asserts authority in Kiev

    Quote Originally Posted by annata View Post


    Lenin statues toppled across Ukraine
    There is a good reason for doing that.


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    Re: Ukraine crisis: Opposition asserts authority in Kiev

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Aren't you a United States citizen?
    no...
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    Re: Ukraine crisis: Opposition asserts authority in Kiev

    Quote Originally Posted by Art_Allm View Post
    There is a good reason for doing that.

    What good reason?!? Being Nazi apologist like you?!?

    For the good and the bad it is part of their history, if they don't want them anymore they can remove them.
    But they should not allow the likes of Pravy Sektor to dictate the future of Ukraine.

    Btw...I see you finally crawled out of the History sub-forum...I doubt that you managed to do any actual reading on warfare/tank warfare since though.


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    Re: Ukraine crisis: Opposition asserts authority in Kiev

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallenangel View Post
    What good reason?!? Being Nazi apologist like you?!?

    For the good and the bad it is part of their history, if they don't want them anymore they can remove them.
    But they should not allow the likes of Pravy Sektor to dictate the future of Ukraine.

    Btw...I see you finally crawled out of the History sub-forum...I doubt that you managed to do any actual reading on warfare/tank warfare since though.


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