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Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Yes I have, and that's fine.

Just like a liberal - thinking everyone else only supports discrimination against things they're not. If a black establishment didn't want to sell me fried chicken and collards, that's fine. I'd take my money down the street to someone who wants it. I wouldn't bitch and whine.

I am pro-business. Period. Bottom line. End of story.

Putting limitations on business is not being anti-business. It's being pro-human.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Truth, not spin.

The only way it can be considered anti-gay is because it won't force people to pretend to be tolerant when they're not.

I wish I could be a moral absolutist and superior like so many people on this thread. I enjoy watching the finger-wagging from way on high.

No one is going to force someone to pretend to be tolerant. It's going to keep you from discriminating and redirect your actions. Like I said, this happens all the time should.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

You seem to have a fetish about women on their periods, but thanks for sharing.

As for the signs, yeah, go for it, says I. Three cheers for restoring human rights.

No, just using the silly example from the bible... You seem to want to be the one who likes to discriminate...
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Yes I have, and that's fine.

Just like a liberal - thinking everyone else only supports discrimination against things they're not. If a black establishment didn't want to sell me fried chicken and collards, that's fine. I'd take my money down the street to someone who wants it. I wouldn't bitch and whine.

I am pro-business. Period. Bottom line. End of story.

You haven't read the bill in detail. Furthermore, the equal enforcement of the bill is questionable--

suppose a private restaurant run By Muslims chose to ban Xtians on the basis of their religious beliefs, or a business owner chose to retaliate against the law by banning konservative pols on the basis of what he claims are his religious beliefs.

If the bill simply amounted to an owner's ability to exercise his faith when running his business, these bans would be allowed, but then authorities in AZ may try to yank his license, file suit against him, whatever just to make his life miserable.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Phoenix isn't really a city....its more of a suburb. The "city" is only about 8 blocks....very small.

Wrong. Phoenix is a 517 square mile city.

Not very small. Population 1.489 Million (2012) It is the 6th largest city in population in the US. NY, LA, Chicago, Houston, Philadelphia, Phoenix.

Los Angeles is a 503 square mile city.

Chicago is a 234 square mile city

Seattle is 142 square miles.

Miami is 35.68 square miles

Pittsburgh is 58.3 square miles

Philadelphia is 142.6 miles

Detroit is 142.9 miles
 
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Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Putting limitations on business is not being anti-business.

th
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Sure it is but work with me. Both are destructive to the environment. The only reason being forced to serve a gay man in your restaurant is even a problem for that business owner is because he is being intolerant. He does him no real harm. What I say to that business owner is grow up, let people be who they are and recognize that who or what they are is none of your business and you will receive the same consideration.

No, I will not work with you. The only true meaning of the term law, as applied to the civil rights of men is the principle, obligation or requirement of natural justice, which finds its origin in the natural rights of individuals, results necessarily from them, keeps them ever in view as its end and purpose, secures their enjoyment, and forbids their violation. It also secures property, and the natural right to ones own labor, service, contract, and association, which are all of importance here.

It does not however imply or permit that the state can decree that people have the right partake in property that is not their own, or to force others to anything against their will; be that, association, provide them service, or to sign an agreement with them of any kind.
 
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Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Putting limitations on business is not being anti-business. It's being pro-human.

That makes no sense what so ever.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Now that makes no sense.

No, it makes no sense to say that in order for the state to protect our rights the people must agree to forfeit some of their rights.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

And the thing you have in common is as I said - you both think you're superior, and support a state to force it upon people.

I love dictatorships.

Yeah promoting tolerance, acceptance and suggesting that we all strive to create a world of peaceful coexistence is a pretty ****ed up thing to do. I have seen the light!!
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Yeah promoting tolerance, acceptance and suggesting that we all strive to create a world of peaceful coexistence is a pretty ****ed up thing to do. I have seen the light!!

So you promote peace by promoting violence? Well, that is one way of doing it wrong.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

For legislation to quality as Libertarian, the actual effect of the bill must be consistent w/the Libertarian ideal, not merely the wording or title.

In almost all cases, the actual effect of legislation has nothing to do w/the wording of a bill.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Yeah promoting tolerance, acceptance and suggesting that we all strive to create a world of peaceful coexistence is a pretty ****ed up thing to do. I have seen the light!!

Force. Not promote.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

I cut out the rest, since it was just sentimental mush.

You have the emotional depth of a turnip so I will wear your dismissal as a badge of honor.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

You have the emotional depth of a turnip so I will wear your dismissal as a badge of honor.

What do you expect? I'm discussing legitimate legislature and its effects on commerce, and you're going "but that's not faaaaaaaaaaaaair".
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Just holding you to your beliefs. Are you not following them? Then you are a sinner, and not allowed in my establishment.

Okay? So what? What does that have to do with the topic? Regardless, your business wouldn't last a day in the marketplace. Let's be realistic, such a person wouldn't open a business in the first place. They couldn't get past the licensing (the office is full of sinners) nor the rental of the facilities, and hiring? Forget about it.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Okay? So what? What does that have to do with the topic? Regardless, your business wouldn't last a day in the marketplace. Let's be realistic, such a person wouldn't open a business in the first place. They couldn't get past the licensing (the office is full of sinners) nor the rental of the facilities, and hiring? Forget about it.

Under this bill, a business can deny based upon even the nuttiest things that are in the bible.

It is a stupid bill, unnecessary and embarrassing to my state.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Under this bill, a business can deny based upon even the nuttiest things that are in the bible.

It is a stupid bill, unnecessary and embarrassing to my state.

It's only embarrassing in that that they failed to protect the property owners rights. :shrug:
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

I cut out the rest, since it was just sentimental mush.

Sentimental mush about anti gay bill?
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Under this bill, a business can deny based upon even the nuttiest things that are in the bible.

It is a stupid bill, unnecessary and embarrassing to my state.

If enough people feel that way, that business will fail from lack of demand.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Under this bill, a business can deny based upon even the nuttiest things that are in the bible.

It is a stupid bill, unnecessary and embarrassing to my state.

Oh nonsense. Again, someone that fanatical about their religion isn't going to have a public business in the first place. What's embarassing is the opposition to the bill.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

What do you expect? I'm discussing legitimate legislature and its effects on commerce, and you're going "but that's not faaaaaaaaaaaaair".

First of all, unless you are a sociopath (which granted the official diagnosis has yet to come in) emotions are a part of life and of being human. You like to dismiss them as mush and pretend you don't have any, or that yours are somehow more legit, because your emotion of choice is anger and baseless insults. How does that play out for you in real life btw?

Promoting fairness has served as a legitimate basis for existing legislation. Just because equality makes your eyes burn when you see it does not mean that promoting its presence in our laws is purely an emotion plea. It's pragmatic.
 
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