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Thread: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

  1. #611
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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    A contract has to be an agreement, and if you are going to prove it's existence, it's best that it is a written contract. What you speak of is not even a verbal agreement; in that, there is no way possible that each person of society made an agreement with each other verbally, as they have not even communicated, let alone had the chance to agree with other on something.
    Yes, you are correct. The contract has not been signed, nor has it been verbally agreed to by all. The social contract is based on the concept of a mutual interdependence ( the extent of that interdependence can vary considerably). Examples of this contract include:

    -Concept is that all societies have some expectation that members will serve in the common defense. A society may give allowance, but none have voided the concept.

    - Concept that no property absolutely belongs to any sole individual. Rather, the society as a whole still retains some control over that property. Of course, this societal control can be very extreme (Maoism) to very, very nominal.

    - Concept that members can be compeled give recesources for the common good of the society (taxes, provided goods, provided services etc) - even if they dont benefit directly from the provision of those services. As with the other two concepts, the degree that members are compeled can vary considerably.
    Last edited by Cryptic; 02-24-14 at 05:21 PM.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Nope, I cant. The contract is a form of common law. Its been written into all human societies. The forms that the contract take and the extent of the contract can vary considerably (from very exacting, to very nominal), but every society has had some form of social contract amongst members.
    people don't have authority over other people which is enforceable.

    your contract does not exist......government is here to secure, rights....that is why its created.

  3. #613
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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    people don't have authority over other people which is enforceable.

    your contract does not exist......
    In the real world, a social contract amongst members of the society does exist (yes, it can take different forms, and be very nominal in some societies). See my reply to Henrin.
    Last edited by Cryptic; 02-24-14 at 05:24 PM.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    It does exist. See my reply to Henrin.
    wrong!.....your asserting that people can control the actions of other people thru law, based on whether you [dis- like] their actions........this is ridiculous.

    if it was so, then the people could dictate... eating, drinking, smoking, looking at porn, abortion, based on what the people------dislike.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    wrong!.....your asserting that people can control the actions of other people thru law, based on whether you [dis- like] their actions........this is ridiculous.

    if it was so, then the people could dictate... eating, drinking, smoking, looking at porn, abortion, based on what the people------dislike.

    Yes, social dislike can serve as a basis for some provisions of some unwritten social contracts in some societies. In our society, however, this basis has been diminished alot in recent generations. Even still, we, like every other society that ever existed has kept the following provisions of the unwritten social contract:

    Concept is that all societies have some expectation that members will serve in the common defense. A society may give allowance, but none have voided the concept.

    - Concept that no property absolutely belongs to any sole individual. Rather, the society as a whole still retains some control over that property. Of course, this societal control can be very extreme (Maoism) to very, very nominal.

    - Concept that members can be compeled give private recesources for the common good of the society (taxes, provided goods, provided services etc) - even if they dont benefit directly from the provision of those services. As with the other two concepts, the degree that members are compeled can vary considerably.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Yes, social dislike can serve as a basis for some provisions of some unwritten social contracts in some societies. In our society, however, this basis has been diminished alot in recent generations. Even still, we, like every other society that ever existed has kept the following provisions of the unwritten social contract:

    Concept is that all societies have some expectation that members will serve in the common defense. A society may give allowance, but none have voided the concept.

    - Concept that no property absolutely belongs to any sole individual. Rather, the society as a whole still retains some control over that property. Of course, this societal control can be very extreme (Maoism) to very, very nominal.

    - Concept that members can be compeled give recesources for the common good of the society (taxes, provided goods, provided services etc) - even if they dont benefit directly from the provision of those services. As with the other two concepts, the degree that members are compeled can vary considerably.
    wrong.... feelings are not protected by law.

    you are asserting democracy, "mob rule", believing because you have a majority of people who think as you do, you can control those in the minority who do things you just don't like..

    people do things everyday, and on t.v. and their personal life's i don't like, however that is liberty, ...as long as they do not commit crimes or endanger the public, they are free to do so.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    ...as long as they do not commit crimes or endanger the public, they are free to do so.
    Yes, in a hypothetical world that is an attractive principal. In the real world, however, all societies have placed restrictions on that principal (either numerous of nominal).

    In short, all real world societies (fully libertarian societies have never existed- an probably cannot exist) have operated on a permise that unwritten social contracts amongst group members do exist.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Yes, in a hypothetical world that is an attractive principal. In the real world, however, all societies have placed restrictions on that principal (either numerous of nominal).

    In short, all real world societies (fully libertarian societies have never existed- an probably cannot exist) have operated on a permise that unwritten social contracts amongst group members do exist.
    so you believe in "mob rule, the majority's will.

    and rights don't mean anything to you, if someone does something you just don't like.

    do you think we should apply these to abortion?

    whether a person is to fat?

    whether you think a person drinks to much.

    does a person look at porn ?

    smokes?

    uses free speech, and says things you don't like?

    you have a distorted view of liberty....

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    so you believe in "mob rule, the majority's will.

    and rights don't mean anything to you, if someone does something you just don't like.
    No, I just acknoweldge the following:

    - In all societies, there are degrees of forced mutual interdependence (as expressed by the provisions of an unwritten social contract) among group members.
    - That a libertarian society has never existed and that libertariansim is not workable in the real world.
    Last edited by Cryptic; 02-24-14 at 05:58 PM.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    No, I just acknoweldge the following:

    - In all societies, there are degrees of forced mutual interdependence (as expressed by the provisions of an unwritten social contract) among group members.
    - That a libertarian society has never existed and that libertariansim is not workable in the real world.
    has nothing to do with libertarianism........you fail there.

    its about law.....life liberty and pursuit of happiness, ...which is u.s code...law.

    all you have never told me is......."you don't like something, therefore it should be stopped"

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