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Thread: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

  1. #551
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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    At some point one person's rights are going to collide with another person's rights. At that we need to defer to common sense, which unfortunately is not all that common. So granting each and every minority group special status is going to create problems. We are ALL, each and every one of us, covered against forced servitude by the 14th Amendment, so say a gay couple wants to have a private business produce a wedding cake, and the cake maker doesn't want to do it because they disagree with gay marriage. The baker has the right to refuse to do it because the gay couple, or anybody else for that matter, lacks the constitutional right to compel them to do it. It's not a religious freedom issue, it's a 14th Amendment issue regardless of the color or beliefs of the baker. And this is where I draw the line on the gay community not wanting to be equal, but "equaler".

    Now for the sake of argument let's say the gay couple wants a BLACK baker to make the cake and the baker refuses. The gay couple claims discrimination, the baker claims 14th Amendment protection. What should the judge do?

    Everybody has the right to refuse to work with other people for whatever reason barring a previous contractual obligation. Over my 7 years in business I have a short list of people I will not do work for. Not because of race , religion or orientation (although one of them does happen to be gay), but because they are unreasonable assholes. One of them used to be the mayor of our town. He has since died, so I guess we are down to 2. They are both white women. Should I be forced to do business with the lesbian because she is gay but not the other because she does not have minority status? And at what point are MY rights being violated?

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    That's not at all what this bill is about.

    The idea was to create a protection for businesses that might get ambushed by 'crusaders'. For example, I have a client who makes custom ceramics. She makes all kinds of stuff with angels and crosses and other symbols generally associated with Christianity. If someone comes into her shop and wants a pentagram and goat head on a platter and she chooses not to make it because she's a Christian and opposed to such imagery she should be allowed to refuse that particular job.
    as a gay man your reasoning on the matter makes me not against this. I am smart enough to look elsewhere if someone denies me service, and obviously I wont be asked to leave or not shop at most stores because i'm not wearing a dress and flinging a dildo around so I don't think it will effect anyone who does not press there rainbow flags onto christians

    but thats just how I feel on the matter... but i'm biased because I am gay and I disagree with alot of the gay propoganda and overt sexuality in parades movements etc :P

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by beefheart View Post
    More baloney.
    Why is baloney your target meat? what did it ever do to you?

    freaking ham :/

  4. #554
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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Chocolate View Post
    as a gay man your reasoning on the matter makes me not against this. I am smart enough to look elsewhere if someone denies me service, and obviously I wont be asked to leave or not shop at most stores because i'm not wearing a dress and flinging a dildo around so I don't think it will effect anyone who does not press there rainbow flags onto christians

    but thats just how I feel on the matter... but i'm biased because I am gay and I disagree with alot of the gay propoganda and overt sexuality in parades movements etc :P
    That stuff does nothing to advance the gay agenda. I would say it does the opposite.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by fmw View Post
    That stuff does nothing to advance the gay agenda. I would say it does the opposite.
    that is exactly what I was saying, I disagree with it and I think it hurts the gay movement. and if companys that hold christian beliefs and do not want that sort of thing in there store I don't blame it. other the assless chaps cowboy and hairy gay cop, it's hard to tell if someone is gay. and really this law would ONLY hurt those who feel the need to overtly press there sexality on others which I think is wrong :P

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_Osophy View Post
    Don't you believe that you have a right to walk onto anyone's property? Don't you believe people are obligated to serve you if they happen to run a business?
    nope and nope

    like i said you are severely confused and must be in the wrong thread
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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    I assumed the right not to be discriminated against in a big way (voting, commerce, etc.) is the right being protected.
    people do have a right to commerce, however they don't have a right force commerce on another person.

    when governments deal with citizens/business....it deals in crime, health and saftey.

    when government deals with another government it deals in .......constitutional violations.

    therefore if a citizen/ business has not committed a crime, or threaten the health and saftey [something that could cause death or destruction] of the people, government has no authority to act.......because there is no rights violation taking place.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    He's just longing for the days of Bull Connor keeping those black folks out of Woolworths with fire hoses and police dogs. Remember, this is the Rand Paul philosophy.
    I dont know about all that but some people simply dont like rights being protected when it protects people they dont like.
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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    nope and nope

    like i said you are severely confused and must be in the wrong thread
    Then if you don't get someone to serve you when they otherwise don't desire to serve you how do you actually get service from them?

    Since getting their service will almost always detail either entering their property or using their property in some way or another, how do you get service without either entering or otherwise using their property in the vast majority of cases?

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    I assumed the right not to be discriminated against in a big way (voting, commerce, etc.) is the right being protected.
    you have a right to commerce voluntarily. If the other party doesnt want to do business with you, why should they have to?

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    nope and nope

    like i said you are severely confused and must be in the wrong thread
    You clearly stated that not serving someone is a violation of their right

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