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Thread: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_Osophy View Post
    You mean like the right to other people's private property, personal labor and service?
    you must be severely confused and in the wrong thread
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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    If a business owner in running his business is not committing a crime or violating health and safety code, then by what authority in a constitution does it give goverment power tp apply force on the business's owner?

    Goverment is here to secure rights,not to force people to do things agonist there will, just because government wants a particular outcome.
    Last edited by Master PO; 02-24-14 at 06:31 AM.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by beefheart View Post
    Because Phoenix was founded late, it was able to be designed for people who have cars. So you don't have narrow one way alleys and people living on top of each other. Other cities envy us for being spread out, you need to be spread out here, especially on a day like today where it will be near 80 degrees and you can lay out in the sun...or go hiking, etc....
    I'm not disagreeing with you. Phoenix has some good qualities. But, all that being said....it still isn't much of a "city"....its more of a suburb.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    If you wish to read Arizona's anti-gay bill, here it is Bill Text: AZ SB1062 | 2014

    It has some rather interesting statements, for instance
    Definitions: 2. "Exercise of religion" means the PRACTICE OR OBSERVANCE OF RELIGION, INCLUDING THE ability to act or refusal to act in a manner substantially motivated by a religious belief, whether or not the exercise is compulsory or central to a larger system of religious belief.
    then there is the stated requirement as to who and what is a "person"
    5. "Person" includes ANY INDIVIDUAL, ASSOCIATION, PARTNERSHIP, CORPORATION, CHURCH, RELIGIOUS ASSEMBLY OR INSTITUTION, ESTATE, TRUST, FOUNDATION OR OTHER LEGAL ENTITY.
    Here's the section that will kick Arizona in the 'nads if the Governor signs SB 1062 into law
    41-1493.01. Free exercise of religion protected; definition
    A. Free exercise of religion is a fundamental right that applies in this state even if laws, rules or other government actions are facially neutral.
    B. Except as provided in subsection C, OF THIS SECTION, STATE ACTION shall not substantially burden a person's exercise of religion even if the burden results from a rule of general applicability.
    As soon as I read it, my first thought was "They just legalised Mormon and Muslim polygamy!!"

    Hatred of one class of citizens certainly does seem to cause blindness in regards to all possible consequences. Then of course there is the ever so small matter that business groups across the state are protesting the passage of SB 1062. I wonder why that might be, after all doesn't this bill give businesses free rein in choosing their customers.

    and finally, another example of hypocrisy; one often reads about "tort reform" as a means of reducing medical costs. "Tort reform", as it is used in these rants, is taken as an excuse to reduce rewards when a doctor or hospital loses a court case by either putting a cap on the amount the plaintiff may receive or by reducing the instances in whch liability is incurred by medical professionals. SB 1062 increases the possibility for legal complaints against all governmental bodies whenever a "person" (remember this includes corporations) feels unduly burdened by government actions.
    D. A person whose religious exercise is burdened in violation of this section may assert that violation as a claim or defense in a judicial proceeding, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THE GOVERNMENT IS A PARTY TO THE PROCEEDING. THE PERSON ASSERTING SUCH A CLAIM OR DEFENSE MAY OBTAIN APPROPRIATE RELIEF. A party who prevails in any action to enforce this article against a government shall recover attorney fees and costs.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    To be fair, as I understand it, the law allows for the denial of service based on religious beliefs and is not restricted to one set of beliefs, that being related to gay and lesbian customers.

    That said, I think it's ludicrous. And doesn't your constitution state that - to paraphrase - no law shall be adopted that promotes or denies religious observance?

    Even if it wasn't idiotic, administration of such a law will be a nightmare.


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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Soupnazi630 View Post

    Your attempt to spin is a failure.
    Your attempt at life is a failure. See how easy that is.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    I'm not disagreeing with you. Phoenix has some good qualities. But, all that being said....it still isn't much of a "city"....its more of a suburb.
    Nice golf courses in the winter. Other than that...Spring training is fun. That's it for me. Oh, it is a reasonable drive to Sedona.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    Your attempt at life is a failure. See how easy that is.
    Not easy at all.

    The fact that I can post proves I am alive and therefore no attempt was made at a succesful life I simply have one.

    You onher hand simply tried to spin and did an poor job of it.

    The right to free association is a real right everyone has and government has no business interfering. Homophobia on the other hand is merely a fringe concept used primarily to save face when losing an argument or debate which is even remotely related to gay people.

    You did not translate succesfully as you claim your attempt to spin was childish and dishonest.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    If a store is selling goods, then I don't think they should be able to discriminate on the basis of any of the discussed social demographics: age, gender, race, ethnicity, gender orientation. Not wearing shoes or a shirt or those types of things, yes they should be allowed.

    I feel differently about personal services. A hair dresser, a masseuse and yes, a photographer should be able to make that judgment whether they want to provide that personal service or not and for whatever reason they see fit. A plumber, roofer or other trade I don't see as a personal service. The main profession I don't have an answer for is healthcare provider.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    If a business owner in running his business is not committing a crime or violating health and safety code, then by what authority in a constitution does it give goverment power tp apply force on the business's owner?

    Goverment is here to secure rights,not to force people to do things agonist there will, just because government wants a particular outcome.
    Because the governemnt has a legitimate interest in a smoothly running society. Discrimination based on race, sex, etc. tends to be disruptive. That aside, private individuals running a commerical business should be required to provide service to all, but not contracts.

    When applied to say gay marriage it could be:

    -Cake baker must serve gays, blacks, native americans, whites, asians etc by allowing them to buy cakes at his store.
    -Cake baker does not need to accept a contract to customize a cake saying "Adam and Steve are married"

    Rather, gays are just sold a cake and they can put what they want on it. Likewise, neo confedrates can shop for and buy a t-shirt from the black T-shirt printer. But, he can decline a contract to customize it with the CSA battle flag.

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