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Thread: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

  1. #441
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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    Given the assumption of fully legally equal status via the legal mechanism of civil union, would that status then still be considered discriminatory?
    Separate but equal?
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    Given the assumption of fully legally equal status via the legal mechanism of civil union, would that status then still be considered discriminatory?
    there is no such thing, its impossible to do so and history and facts prove equal but separate is still not equal
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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    We do not always work where we live and we definitely do not keep tabs on who is on duty in the er
    but we always choose where we work and always choose where we live.


    We are fallible humans, petty and vindictive. Can you envision where policies that allow discrimination would lead?
    Yes. It would lead to some businesses doing better than others because they chose to serve everyone.
    It is not about forcing anyone to do anything. Lets take the baker. He makes the cake and wants to sell it and as a retail business he sells it to the public. Key word here is public. There are a myriad ways to not be a retail baker and only sell to whomever one wants, but once you open a retail, read public business you have an obligation to serve the public. That is the real crux of the issue. The baker has the right to sell to only the people he wants, but he has to set up the business that way.
    you dont have an obligation to serve anyone.

    Aren't they entitled to the same rights as other religious people?
    They are entitled to the same rights. Other peoples property and labor is not one of those rights

    So is every establishment that is not a "private club" but it is open to people walking in from the street, you know the public.
    Completely different.

  4. #444
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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    From the legislator quoted in the article:

    "In my life and in my businesses, if I don't want to do business or if I don't want to deal with a particular company or person or whatever, I'm not interested. That's America. That's freedom."
    Actually, that's freedom for you and it makes an entire segment of the population less free. How about an oral surgeon who owns a small business? They're Christian and a homosexual comes to them needing an infected tooth extracted? The oral surgeon can deny them service because they believe it's wrong to touch a person's mouth when that mouth has mingled with other mouths of the same sex? Then the person could get a jaw infection and in an extreme scenario, possibly die... and THAT'S "FREEDOM?!"

    In the south, if you are a business owner who expresses anti-gay sentiments, you are applauded (see Chick-Fil-A). Discrimination ran rampant in this country until consumer rights and civil rights laws were enacted. Going back to that would be a pretty huge step toward the dark ages. I'm sure that the homophobes, anti-Semites, klan members and libertarians love the idea, but giving one person a right that, in turn, infringes on the rights of thousands (or hundreds, or hundreds of thousands, or millions) is nobody's definition of "freedom." It is, however, a perfectly astute definition of "evil."
    A working class hero is something to be

  5. #445
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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post
    Actually, that's freedom for you and it makes an entire segment of the population less free.
    No, it doesn't. They never had the freedom to force others to do their will in the first place.

    How about an oral surgeon who owns a small business? They're Christian and a homosexual comes to them needing an infected tooth extracted? The oral surgeon can deny them service because they believe it's wrong to touch a person's mouth when that mouth has mingled with other mouths of the same sex? Then the person could get a jaw infection and in an extreme scenario, possibly die... and THAT'S "FREEDOM?!"
    So? The individual that denied them service just refused to assist them in their problem. They didn't create any sort of harm for the individual. If you need food and I fail to provide you food I didn't cause you to starve, I just didn't help to avoid you from doing so.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post
    From the legislator quoted in the article:



    Actually, that's freedom for you and it makes an entire segment of the population less free. How about an oral surgeon who owns a small business? They're Christian and a homosexual comes to them needing an infected tooth extracted? The oral surgeon can deny them service because they believe it's wrong to touch a person's mouth when that mouth has mingled with other mouths of the same sex? Then the person could get a jaw infection and in an extreme scenario, possibly die... and THAT'S "FREEDOM?!"

    In the south, if you are a business owner who expresses anti-gay sentiments, you are applauded (see Chick-Fil-A). Discrimination ran rampant in this country until consumer rights and civil rights laws were enacted. Going back to that would be a pretty huge step toward the dark ages. I'm sure that the homophobes, anti-Semites, klan members and libertarians love the idea, but giving one person a right that, in turn, infringes on the rights of thousands (or hundreds, or hundreds of thousands, or millions) is nobody's definition of "freedom." It is, however, a perfectly astute definition of "evil."
    The answer is simple. Go to a different business.

  7. #447
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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_Osophy View Post
    That's pretty retarded. You aren't entitled to anyone's money.
    Oh....but they will cry and scream persecution....just watch.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post
    Actually, that's freedom for you and it makes an entire segment of the population less free.
    You mean how like one person exercising their right to burn the US Flag pisses off millions of people? So how do you weigh the benefit that this one person receives against the angst and anger felt by millions, or tens of millions, who might witness that event?

    Going back to that would be a pretty huge step toward the dark ages.
    To fight for freedom and choice is never taking a step backwards. The fight for human rights is always a step towards the light.

    . .but giving one person a right that
    You're not giving people a right, they're demanding that you stop oppressing their inalienable right to free association. Huge difference.

    infringes on the rights of thousands
    This is a false equation. You can't really construct a right to "not be offended" or a right which imposes an obligation on an unwilling stranger. For you to benefit from a right of non-discrimination you impose an obligation upon me to associate with you. I freaking don't want to associate with you, get it? So, you have to violate my very real right in order to benefit from your imaginary "right." That formulation of rights poses severe problems that we don't see in the other inalienable rights - you can speak freely, and I don't have to listen; you can worship freely, and I'm don't have to participate; you can travel about freely, and I don't have to approve or ride along. When you want to be my friend and I don't want to be your friend, then my right to free association trumps your fabricated right of non-discrimination.

    It is, however, a perfectly astute definition of "evil."
    I swear, you liberals and your fabricated definitions. Evil is now defined as defending human rights, defending freedom and defending choice. Terrific.

  9. #449
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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by beefheart View Post
    It is growing, ASU has a downtown campus now. Central Ave. runs for miles with skyscrapers and such.
    Sure it is growing....but there isn't much of a city right now. Don't get me wrong....Phoenix is fine....been there a number of times...but it is more of a big suburb than a city.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Oh....but they will cry and scream persecution....just watch.
    So what?

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