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Thread: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    Weird can you quote me saying i did?
    no you cant, its just another failed strawman
    It's weird how you still don't understand the topic well enough to understand that is exactly what your argument means.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    The *only* reason they're targeting gays and not women or blacks in this instance is because the former are seen as more vulnerable at this time and place. That's it!
    The fight for freedom has to start somewhere. We Pro-Choice advocates have a long battle ahead of us for you totalitarians have been quite successful in your war against human rights and your spread of oppression needs to be rolled back.

    These neanderthals would be the driving force behind "white only" restaurants and you would be defending them just the same.
    Do you agree with people who burn the US Flag? Do you agree that the US Flag should be burned? Or do you agree that people should have the right to burn the Flag as part of their right to free speech even though you disagree with that speech and that action?

    I don't believe that anyone in this thread has asked you to patronize a restaurant which only wishes to associate with white people, but any person who defends human rights has to recognize that such a restaurant must have the freedom to exercise the right to free association, just like we recognize that we don't have to agree with the burning of the Flag in order to defend the right of people to make such statements.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    Weird can you quote me saying i did?
    no you cant, its just another failed strawman
    You said this was about equal rights for gays didnt you in some form or another?

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Not even close. If I was a business owner I wouldn't discriminate.

    I'm just not liberal enough to have the arrogance that demands everyone be exactly like me. The funny thing is that you guys claim to be the tolerant ones.
    Yeah, you're not liberal enough to believe that people should be treated the same, regardless of whether or not they are right wing racists. I get it.
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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    Yeah, you're not liberal enough to believe that people should be treated the same, regardless of whether or not they are right wing racists. I get it.
    Nobody is arguing that. The argument is that people should have a right to decide what they do with their own property.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_Osophy View Post
    You said this was about equal rights for gays didnt you in some form or another?
    I mess with Agent because I'm bored, but if you are trying to get him to understand basic logic you might as well be trying to teach a trick to a dead dog.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    I'm just blown away by some of the arguments made in this thread.

    If I'm a vegetarian restaurant should I be required to provide meat products?
    If I'm a Jewish deli should I be required to serve ham and cheese sandwiches?
    If I'm a christian book store should I be required to sell the Koran?
    If I'm a cigar store should I be required to provide a non-smoking section?
    If I'm Abercrombie and Fitch should I be required to have a big and tall section?

    At some point your desire for my services just might conflict with my religious beliefs and to use the law to compel me to provide those services is a direct violation of the 1st amendment. I'm sick and freaking tired of people trying to use the coercive force of government to chip away at my rights.

    I'm sorry, and as a Repubican and someone that opposes Public Accommodation laws - the above rhetoric has always been one of the stupidist things (and I've seen it before) that people that are attempting to have an intelligent conversation about law have to endure. Current Arizona Public Accommodation laws require businesses not to discriminate based on Race, Color, National Origin/Ancestry, Sex, Religion/Creed or Physical/Mental disability.

    If I'm a vegetarian restaurant should I be required to provide meat products?

    No, if you own a restaurant and serve only vegetarian meals, you are not required to start serving meat products. However you can't deny service to a customer for menu items already provided based on Race, Color, National Origin/Ancestry, Sex, Religion/Creed or Physical/Mental disability.

    If I'm a Jewish deli should I be required to serve ham and cheese sandwiches?

    No, if you own a Jewish deli and serve only kosher products, you are not required to start serving non-kosher products. However you can't deny service to a customer for menu items already provided based on Race, Color, National Origin/Ancestry, Sex, Religion/Creed or Physical/Mental disability.

    If I'm a christian book store should I be required to sell the Koran?

    No, if you own a Christian bookstore owner and sell only Christian based products, you are not required to start selling Korans and products of other religions. However you can't deny service to a customer for Christian already provided based on Race, Color, National Origin/Ancestry, Sex, Religion/Creed or Physical/Mental disability.

    If I'm a cigar store should I be required to provide a non-smoking section?

    No, if you own a cigar store and sell only cigars and other tobacco items, you are not required to stock other types of items in a non-smoking section. However you can't deny service to a customer for tobacco items already provided based on Race, Color, National Origin/Ancestry, Sex, Religion/Creed or Physical/Mental disability.

    If I'm Abercrombie and Fitch should I be required to have a big and tall section?

    No, if you own an Abercrombie and Fitch and and stock only items for average sized people, you are not required to start stocking big and tall items. However you can't deny service to a customer for average sized items already provided based on Race, Color, National Origin/Ancestry, Sex, Religion/Creed or Physical/Mental disability.


    ********************************


    I truly hope this helps you understand how Public Accommodation laws function. They in no way require businesses to provide ADDITIONAL goods or services merely at the request of a customer. What they do do is limit the business from discriminatory practices for goods and services they ALREADY offer.

    Whether those laws should, or should not exist, is a different discussion. One that should occur based on how they actually function - not just meaningless (and incorrect) fear mongering.



    >>>>

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    Yeah, you're not liberal enough to believe that people should be treated the same, regardless of whether or not they are right wing racists. I get it.
    Government has to treat all citizens the same, individuals are not required to treat everyone the same.

    Your spouse might make you dinner everyone night but your spouse is not under any obligation to treat me the same, to make me dinner every night.

    You're working under a ludicrous formulation of equality here.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_Osophy View Post
    Nobody is arguing that. The argument is that people should have a right to decide what they do with their own property.
    No, they shouldn't - if it means discrimination against a class of people just because of who they are.
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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    1.)Asking you to support the opinion of nine people with facts is not asking for your opinion.
    2.)We have went over this in other threads and it would appear you still don't understand it. Sad.
    3.)What deflection?
    4.)You don't understand rights
    5.)you won't defend the court rulings.
    6.) I have tried to explain to you rights countless times
    7.) and I can't do anything on the later until you actually defend the opinion of nine people you're leaning on for your argument.
    8.)You are useless Agent.
    9.) You do this annoying **** where you split my posts into numbers
    10.) and then refuse to support your arguments.
    1.) yes it is because my support doesnt matter
    2.) yes you have tried to post this lie before with the same result, go over it 100 more times your post will be wrong each time lol
    3.) the factual deflection that you have nothing to support you besides opinion
    4.) facts prove you wrong
    5.) no because our opinions are meaningless and im not interested in discussion them
    6.) yes you have tried to sell me on your OPINIONS and PHILOSOPHIES of how you FEEL and what YOU THINK. Its meaningless to me when dealing with facts. The philosophy forum is lower you may have better luck there.
    7.) and this is where your posts always fail, you cant do anything because theres no facts to support you and there never have been, also i havent presented any :argument" another mistake you always make. Im simply posting facts. saying 2+2 = 4 is not an argument lol its a fact. THen you coming along and saying i think 2+2=5 is meaningless. then Asking me to defend 2+2=4 after it has been proven is also meaningless when your rebuttal will be opinion that 2+2=5 lol
    8.) another failed personal insult because you cant post anything else, let me know when you can remain civil and do so. All i need is one fact that supports you.
    9.) I number posts out of courtesy and and to avoid confusion. I do it so i don't miss anything that needs replied to and you know exactly what im replying to. It helps any misunderstanding and confusion there may be by making it very clear. SOrry this courtesy bothers you but you could simply not reply
    10.) support has been posted numerous times you just simply ignore it but you are free to do so.

    let me know when you have something please, ill be here, thanks
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