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Thread: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

  1. #241
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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    the freedom for business owner to suffer the consequences of their bigotry
    Get out of town! Since when do liberals care about the increasing corporate profits?

    Look, this should be seen as a godsend for liberals, especially those who work in the business world. You're right, there will be fall-out for business owners who choose to exercise their human rights - some liberals will be furious that these folks are exercising their human rights and these liberals will not shop at those stores and will take their business to other establishments. That's fine.

    Freedom means that one must accept the consequences which arise from the exercise of one's human rights.

    I think they need to be watched and conducted their business in a way that is in keeping with our core principles of equality and freedom.
    Now that's a funny definition of freedom you have there - Freedom: - "Not being allowed to exercise your human rights."

    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    Humiliating someone is something less than destructive?
    I asked a girl out on a date and she discriminated against me. I felt humiliated, I admit it. It hurt to be discriminated against. It bugged me for days.

    Maybe you're right, it would have been better to force her to go out on a date with me, against her will, for that would have spared me the humiliation of being discriminated against. My feelings are more important than her human rights to choose her own associations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    So when this extends to black people on the basis of religious freedom you're fine with this as well?
    Absolutely fine. Think of all the business that will flow to the Anti-Choice brigades you support as people punish the Pro-Choice supporters.

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    How many violent acts spring from intolerance?
    Again with the funky definitions? Intolerance = "supporting human rights."

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    What is with the Far right and their burning desire to discriminate against people who don't think or act or look exactly the same way they do?
    What's with Liberals and their totalitarian impulses and their efforts to suppress human rights? Forcing people into associations that they don't want is the epitome of evil and somehow you take this desire of yours to be a virtue. I really don't understand such a warped values system.

    As with the issue of free speech, to defend free speech doesn't require that you support everyone else's utterances.

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    Yeah promoting tolerance, acceptance and suggesting that we all strive to create a world of peaceful coexistence is a pretty ****ed up thing to do. I have seen the light!!
    Promote tolerance all you want. Be tolerant of people wanting to exercise their human rights, to shape the associations they enter into by the exercise of free choice, support the tolerant Pro-Choice position here, don't be a hater, don't hate people for exercising their human rights. Don't be a totalitarian shoving your peculiar philosophy down the throats of an entire population. Recognize that your fetish for oppressing people is not seen as tolerance.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    what gives you the right to discriminate against me. To single me out because of my race or gender or orientation. Honestly, why would you not consider civility and tolerance over a free-for-all for business? You get to rack up one more sale because you chose to tolerate where some guy puts his wong. Why would you NOT do that. Because you and your self-righteous insistence that your god knows best.
    People discriminate against others every day all day everywhere. We avoid people when we don't like how they smell, look, their "vibe", how they're dressed - you name it. Businesses will generally put all that aside to make sales. Those that don't, typically don't last that long. The problem takes care of itself, no government intervention necessary. In fact government intervention makes things worse. Once the government interferes, then people artificially support a business they might not ordinarily frequent just to combat the interference.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    Fine. So why try and redefine a cultural term that's been in existence since time memorial all for the appeasement of a mere 1% or 2% of the population? I'm perfectly fine with civil unions defined as equal in standing as traditional marriage before the law and the government. The government needs to get out of the marriage business, and leave that to the churches / people.

    No, in order to appease that mere 1% or 2% of the population we have to destroy the institution of marriage as well as traditional religions. Doesn't seem right to me.
    because the current definition is unfair and doesn't give homosexual couples equal treatment under the law you know because a tradition is not right because its a tradition

    if some is such a peace of **** that being forced to treat gay people fairly when it comes to marriage drives them to discriminate against them in some other way their traditions that drive them to it are evil and a threat to freedom and justice

    hetero sexual marriage is not destroyed or harmed and no religion is destroyed or harmed holy matrimony is completely unchanged

    and religious freedom is protected because it cant be used to control people other then believers by their own free will

    seems very right

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    what gives you the right to discriminate against me. To single me out because of my race or gender or orientation. Honestly, why would you not consider civility and tolerance over a free-for-all for business? You get to rack up one more sale because you chose to tolerate where some guy puts his wong. Why would you NOT do that. Because you and your self-righteous insistence that your god knows best.
    I own the property in question and thus control access and use of that property.
    I have ownership of my own labor and service and thus I have a right towards it, and with that right, the right to decide who I will provide it to.

    So what gives you the right to force someone into service for you, force your way onto someones property, force them to permit you to partake in their property and to force someone into commerce for your behest? Any answers?
    Last edited by Henrin; 02-22-14 at 05:39 PM.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    what gives you the right to discriminate against me.
    If I don't have the right to discriminate against you, I'm assuming you also don't have the right to discriminate against me. Terrific. I'll be by your house at 8 pm tonight to pick you up for our date. Don't discriminate against me by refusing to date me, that would be bad, and as you noted, you don't have the right to discriminate in your life.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    what gives you the right to discriminate against me.
    The fact that he has it.

    To single me out because of my race or gender or orientation. Honestly, why would you not consider civility and tolerance over a free-for-all for business? You get to rack up one more sale because you chose to tolerate where some guy puts his wong. Why would you NOT do that. Because you and your self-righteous insistence that your god knows best.
    This isn't about what sane and rational people do. If that was the case, why don't we ban smoking in all its forms? There's no sane or rational reason to smoke.

    People should not be allowed to smoke. Ever. For any reason.

    You support that?

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by blarg View Post
    like if you were gay or black or a certain religion or had unpopular religious views this law help coerce you form your home or how you behave and that's ok

    that's for some one who has the money to try and run their own business consumers can now face the same kind of treatment and it might be harder for them to simply move away

    and its wrong that they have to

    this kind of law can give business collective power to limit your free speech and ability to live

    where not letting people discriminate against you just increases business for people

    this kind of law is a greater threat to freedom and rights
    There are places where gays and blacks are accepted so that point is invalid.

    Again, you dont have a right to others property
    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    what gives you the right to discriminate against me. To single me out because of my race or gender or orientation. Honestly, why would you not consider civility and tolerance over a free-for-all for business? You get to rack up one more sale because you chose to tolerate where some guy puts his wong. Why would you NOT do that. Because you and your self-righteous insistence that your god knows best.
    The fact that it is my property gives me the right to decide who i sell it to. Now whats your counter point? What gives you the right to force me to sell it to you?

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_Osophy View Post
    So nobody wants to take on my scenario?

    I have a limited supply of chicken nuggets that i want to sell. Why should you get to decide who i sell them to?
    You'll need to submit a study to the state that breaks out the population within 30 miles of your place of business over 65 separate and distinct demographic categories. The nuggets will then need to be allocated proportionally to members of each category. If one or more category chooses not to purchase your product you will have to submit a report detailing the attempts you have made to make your product acceptable to that category. If they still refuse you must submit their portion of the product to the state for distribution. However, if at any time within a 6 year period after the groups second refusal they change their mind you will be required to provide them with the agreed upon product at a price no greater than that at which they refused. Failure to comply with this regulation will result in charges of domestic terrorism and rendition to a reeducation facility.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by blarg View Post
    because the current definition is unfair and doesn't give homosexual couples equal treatment under the law you know because a tradition is not right because its a tradition

    if some is such a peace of **** that being forced to treat gay people fairly when it comes to marriage drives them to discriminate against them in some other way their traditions that drive them to it are evil and a threat to freedom and justice

    hetero sexual marriage is not destroyed or harmed and no religion is destroyed or harmed holy matrimony is completely unchanged

    and religious freedom is protected because it cant be used to control people other then believers by their own free will

    seems very right
    If the word marriage is now to include same sex couples, what's the point of any definition of what a marriage is at all?

    There is already support for polygamous marriages coming, next it'll be someone will be wanting to marry a life sized doll, their neighbors dog, who the hell knows what's next? Now that the bounds have been removed. The flood gates have been opened, and the flood won't be held back any longer.

    The concept of 'marriage' will become meaningless. It's already happened in Sweden, and all the social ills that come with that loss of meaning.

    One of the founding pillars of a stable society will have been kicked out, and no longer able to lend support.

    Granted, this is more of a philosophical perspective.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    People discriminate against others every day all day everywhere. We avoid people when we don't like how they smell, look, their "vibe", how they're dressed - you name it. Businesses will generally put all that aside to make sales. Those that don't, typically don't last that long. The problem takes care of itself, no government intervention necessary. In fact government intervention makes things worse. Once the government interferes, then people artificially support a business they might not ordinarily frequent just to combat the interference.
    unless the problem is to wide spread and the victims are a minority

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