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Thread: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

  1. #1171
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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    hmmmm im gonna bookmark this for a different discussion

    i find this interesting
    now i agree there is a freedom of association i got no problem with that

    but there are a hand full of dishonest biased posters who use the completely failed and retarded arguments like if its not directly in the constitution its not a right and the other one is marriage is not a right even though SCOTUS said it is 14 times that doesnt count LOL

    now this has nothing to do with the poster i quoted only those that use those failed arguments and then frequently and dishonestly refer to freedom of association even though thats not impacted
    Here's the difference, I'm using freedom of association specifically because it was written into the constitution by the judicial branch. So if you buy the other write/right-ins by the judicial branch, as you do, you have to swallow that one too.
    Last edited by clownboy; 03-03-14 at 05:25 PM.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    The government can not offer or require the signing away of the peoples rights to take part in certain activities.
    There is no right to discriminate.

    There is no just reason for them to do anything but kick out those they don't desire to serve. Try being a libertarian for once.
    I am being libertarian. I can choose to live and do business in a state that does not have a discrimination law in effect, as could they. Liberty does not mean violating any state law you do not like in the name of religious freedom.

    No one has the right to the service of someone else. It is a violation of the 13th amendment for any laws to exist that makes someone the servant of another.
    If you want a state business license so you can conduct services for the general public, then there are certain people you are obligated to provide services for even if you don't like them. There is no right to deny services. The 13th applied to slavery and involuntary servitude, not paid services, so it is irrelevant to this discussion and a hyperbole at best.

    Someone being ignorant doesn't make someone have to serve them, nor does it give them the right to someones else's property.
    Once payment has been rendered for property, it is no longer your property. The customers paid for the cake, therefore the baker was obligated to provide the cake.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    He is in no way being kept from exercising his religion. He is free to believe that homosexuality is wrong. Refusing to sell someone a cake with certain words on it, while selling cakes with the same words on it to others is discrimination, not excercising your religion.
    All rights are property rights, and as such all rights are built on discrimination.

  4. #1174
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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Here's the difference, I'm using freedom of association specifically because it was written into the constitution by the judicial branch. So if you buy the other right-ins by the judicial branch, as you do, you have to swallow that one too.
    Your freedom of association only goes so far, and that wouldn't even really apply here since the guy is willing to associate with homosexuals (according to his claim), but unwilling to treat them equally to other customers when it comes to buying certain products/a certain product.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    All rights are property rights, and as such all rights are built on discrimination.
    No they aren't.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Congress did not make that non discrimination law, that was a state law. The First Amendment protects free speech from being violated by the Federal Government.
    That is not true. The US congress has made non-discrimination law, quite a lot of it in fact. AND the First protects speech from being violated by ALL government, federal, state and local.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Your freedom of association only goes so far, and that wouldn't even really apply here since the guy is willing to associate with homosexuals (according to his claim), but unwilling to treat them equally to other customers when it comes to buying certain products/a certain product.
    Nope, in fact if you read the decision that engineered freedom of association into the constitution you see it deals with associations with groups and causes as well. .

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    The first amendment has applied to states for almost a century now.
    True, but through court precedent.

    Damn those activist judges! Using the 14th amendment to protect individual liberties! How dare they!

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    That is not true. The US congress has made non-discrimination law, quite a lot of it in fact. AND the First protects speech from being violated by ALL government, federal, state and local.
    True, but once again by court precedent.

    Gitlow v. New York - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I just don't like it when people quote the Constitution as if that were how it were originally written.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Nope, in fact if you read the decision that engineered freedom of association into the constitution you see it deals with associations with groups and causes as well. .
    Still only goes so far, otherwise no anti-discrimination laws would hold up ever under Constitutional scrutiny.

    And freedom of association really deals mainly with a person's right to join groups or be associated with other people, not in whether or not they have some sort of freedom not to ever do some sort of business with certain types of people.
    Last edited by roguenuke; 03-03-14 at 05:30 PM.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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