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Thread: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    There is no Constitutional right to freedom of association.

    Exactly how does a non discrimination law that requires people to provide services to gays and lesbians lead to violation of their religious beliefs? If you could actually articulate what specific religious belief is violated, that would be helpful.

    I also find it amusing that conservatives call their disobedience to laws, "annulment" based on their particular interpretation of the Constitutionality of laws.
    The bakery was willing to provide services but not bake a wedding cake designed for Gays. They could buy an ordinary cake or bread, cookies or what have you.

    Now they are out of business, which does no one any good at all. This sorry episode became a matter of vindictiveness, not law or discrimination.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The owner was willing to do business with them, he just didn't want to bake a cake that went against his religious beliefs. Forcing someone to bake a cake they don't want to bake, or decorate, or labor at, is not a good precedent for any free society.
    We have laws that say you cannot refuse to sell something to someone on certain basis alone, such as their race, sex, religion, etc. It is no different than refusing to sell a wedding cake to an interracial or interfaith couple. How many wedding cakes does he sell where at least one of the two getting married is getting divorced? Has he ever refused to sell a wedding cake to a remarrying person because it violates his faith? I'm willing to bet he hasn't and yet that goes against religious principles of marriage much more than same sex couples getting married. It is picking and choosing his religious convictions because he doesn't approve of same sex couples getting married. That is not really basing it on religious beliefs, but pure bias, unlawful discrimination.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    We have laws that say you cannot refuse to sell something to someone on certain basis alone, such as their race, sex, religion, etc. It is no different than refusing to sell a wedding cake to an interracial or interfaith couple. How many wedding cakes does he sell where at least one of the two getting married is getting divorced? Has he ever refused to sell a wedding cake to a remarrying person because it violates his faith? I'm willing to bet he hasn't and yet that goes against religious principles of marriage much more than same sex couples getting married. It is picking and choosing his religious convictions because he doesn't approve of same sex couples getting married. That is not really basing it on religious beliefs, but pure bias, unlawful discrimination.
    Since folks don't generally have divorce celebrations where they order a cake none of that applies. The baker wasn't against selling his wares to homosexuals (he made that clear), but was against supporting in any way, even with his wares, the event. I'd be willing to bet he'd have also turned down the job of baking for a polygamist commitment ceremony.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The bakery was willing to provide services but not bake a wedding cake designed for Gays. They could buy an ordinary cake or bread, cookies or what have you.
    They have a business license in a state that has a non discrimination law which prohibits discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. They made the decision to do business in that state and thus are subject to its laws to provide all services they offer to the general public.

    Now they are out of business, which does no one any good at all. This sorry episode became a matter of vindictiveness, not law or discrimination.
    If I went to a heavily Christian community, set up shop, and then was very vocal about how much I disliked Christians, should I be surprised if I lose business and then have to close up? They are free to speak about what they believe and customers are free to take their business elsewhere if they disagree. You call that vindictiveness, I call it voting with your wallet.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    They have a business license in a state that has a non discrimination law which prohibits discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. They made the decision to do business in that state and thus are subject to its laws to provide all services they offer to the general public.
    I agree with this.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The bakery was willing to provide services but not bake a wedding cake designed for Gays. They could buy an ordinary cake or bread, cookies or what have you.

    Now they are out of business, which does no one any good at all. This sorry episode became a matter of vindictiveness, not law or discrimination.
    they are out of business? thats news to me i thought they just went on-line/private but if they are i guess that will teach criminals not to break the law
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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Since folks don't generally have divorce celebrations where they order a cake none of that applies. The baker wasn't against selling his wares to homosexuals (he made that clear), but was against supporting in any way, even with his wares, the event. I'd be willing to bet he'd have also turned down the job of baking for a polygamist commitment ceremony.
    They do get married after divorce though, which violates the religious rules of at least a couple of religions. Catholics consider it constant adultery to get married after getting divorced, basically living in a constant state of sin.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    We have laws that say you cannot refuse to sell something to someone on certain basis alone, such as their race, sex, religion, etc. It is no different than refusing to sell a wedding cake to an interracial or interfaith couple. How many wedding cakes does he sell where at least one of the two getting married is getting divorced? Has he ever refused to sell a wedding cake to a remarrying person because it violates his faith? I'm willing to bet he hasn't and yet that goes against religious principles of marriage much more than same sex couples getting married. It is picking and choosing his religious convictions because he doesn't approve of same sex couples getting married. That is not really basing it on religious beliefs, but pure bias, unlawful discrimination.
    All your questions remain the baker's business. It is about refusing to bake a cake on religious principles and the baker can decide what those principles are, not anyone else.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    All your questions remain the baker's business. It is about refusing to bake a cake on religious principles and the baker can decide what those principles are, not anyone else.
    the baker can do all that as long as it doesn't break the law or infringe on others rights,its a very simple concept and its the same for ALL OF US
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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    They have a business license in a state that has a non discrimination law which prohibits discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. They made the decision to do business in that state and thus are subject to its laws to provide all services they offer to the general public.
    Of course there is also this.

    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances".

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