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Thread: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

  1. #1131
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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    my bet would be that they really don't. There is a real belief among many on the left that having government make your decisions for you is better because government will make wiser decisions, and that individual liberties do not outweigh political correctness.








    It's funny, because for many people, it's true.
    Does your individual liberty cover evading health codes?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    My bet is that he tried to, and they insisted he provide them with a reason.

    That would be false. If you investigate two of the most recognized cases (Elane Photography NM and Sweetcakes by Melissa OR) there was no disagreement (in other words BOTH parties agreed to the basic series of events). In the Elane Photography case the inquiry and exchange were made by email and the email were part of the investigation, in the Sweetcakes case they both acknowledged the exchange.

    In neither case was the job declined and then a reason "insisted" upon. In both cases the business owner "volunteered" that they refused to provide the services after simply discovering that the event's were for lesbian couples.



    >>>>

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    unless we happen to have a transcript of the conversation itself, we don't know whether or not he volunteered or they asked. Either way is irrelevant, as what is at stake is whether or not he should be forced to violate his religious principles.

    In the Elane Photography case there was a transcript - it was email.


    >>>>

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Does your individual liberty cover evading health codes?
    Are you asking that of the hippie chick in the picture?

  5. #1135
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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    That would be false. If you investigate two of the most recognized cases (Elane Photography NM and Sweetcakes by Melissa OR) there was no disagreement (in other words BOTH parties agreed to the basic series of events). In the Elane Photography case the inquiry and exchange were made by email and the email were part of the investigation, in the Sweetcakes case they both acknowledged the exchange.

    In neither case was the job declined and then a reason "insisted" upon. In both cases the business owner "volunteered" that they refused to provide the services after simply discovering that the event's were for lesbian couples.



    >>>>
    correct

    and ive said so many times, not that i condone these actions but if the bigoted dummies would have simply said, we are booked that day or something else they would have probably been ok but since they volunteered the info about wanting to illegally discriminate against "the gays" and thier wedding they admitted to BREAKING THE LAW and VIOLATING RIGHTS in thier state, county or municipality


    i have no idea how they ever convinced themselves that breaking the law was going to be on in this instance
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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Does your individual liberty cover evading health codes?
    Not really driven by political correctness or emotional response, so sort of immaterial.

    I will say that the application of health codes to childrens' lemonade stands is systemically insane.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    That would be false. If you investigate two of the most recognized cases (Elane Photography NM and Sweetcakes by Melissa OR) there was no disagreement (in other words BOTH parties agreed to the basic series of events). In the Elane Photography case the inquiry and exchange were made by email and the email were part of the investigation, in the Sweetcakes case they both acknowledged the exchange.

    In neither case was the job declined and then a reason "insisted" upon. In both cases the business owner "volunteered" that they refused to provide the services after simply discovering that the event's were for lesbian couples.
    then (as pointed out before) that's interesting, but immaterial, unless you wish to argue that deception is a preferred policy.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    then (as pointed out before) that's interesting, but immaterial, unless you wish to argue that deception is a preferred policy.
    I frankly don't understand what the issue is. Those businesses chose to obtain a business license in a state where that license would limit their freedom of association due to non discrimination laws that were in effect.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    I frankly don't understand what the issue is. Those businesses chose to obtain a business license in a state where that license would limit their freedom of association due to non discrimination laws that were in effect.
    Then you have no problem with Arizona businesses and all those businesses licensed in states that do not require sexual orientation to be a protected class to refuse to serve homosexual events?

    Also, our freedom of association comes from the US Constitution, state licensing should not be able to restrict that.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Then you have no problem with Arizona businesses and all those businesses licensed in states that do not require sexual orientation to be a protected class to refuse to serve homosexual events?
    I used to but not anymore. I can choose to leave my state. They can as well.

    Also, our freedom of association comes from the US Constitution, state licensing should not be able to restrict that.
    There is absolutely no right to freedom of association anywhere in the US Constitution. That is a common misconception.

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