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Ukraine in Flames

Wow so compelling, your personal pleasure and retirement portfolio wow some people die for their freedoms. I'm sorry that's not captain America that's something I can't say on a polite forum.

 
It's been difficult for many of the old countries of the USSR. The Ukraine has had a difficult time. I have met and talked with people from the Ukraine. They want freedom and financial independence but it is a rather complex mess. I wish them well.
 
Can't they not join the EU and not become subservient to Russia, and just be a sovereign country?

The Old World still doesn't get it.
 
Can't they not join the EU and not become subservient to Russia, and just be a sovereign country?

The Old World still doesn't get it.

From what I understand it isn't that easy. They had very little infrastructure of their own after the breakup of the Soviet Union. Manufacturing, distribution, farming (especially the Ukraine), education and on and on was largely compartmentalized under the USSR. In many cases there wasn't much to start over with. No trade agreements, no currency, no standards, little or no infrastructure. If your tractor breaks down and there are no local parts it may be that the parts are made in another former Soviet state but who owns the parts plant now? And how do they fund production and how are the parts warehoused and sold and distributed? And what agreements exist now between your country and the country making the tractor parts under the old Soviet system? And how do you contact the plant to order the parts if their is no telecommunication agreement or interface? On and on and on. This some of what people in the Ukraine have faced and continue to face.

Do you think the EU would welcome them? Why? What do they have to offer the EU at this point?
 
Can't they not join the EU and not become subservient to Russia, and just be a sovereign country?

The Old World still doesn't get it.
Oh, we get it. But power has its own ideas.
 
Wow so compelling, your personal pleasure and retirement portfolio wow some people die for their freedoms. I'm sorry that's not captain America that's something I can't say on a polite forum.

They need to learn the lesson from George C. Scott as Patton "I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country."

"It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived."--George S. Patton, Jr.
 
Sensationalist title...

The protest/riot/revolt has been going on for almost 3 months. There are countless threads in the forum about it. Also, the OP is a child.
 
Can't they not join the EU and not become subservient to Russia, and just be a sovereign country?

The Old World still doesn't get it.

Wow really flexing your knowledge on this subject aren't you now?

No they can't "just be a soverign country" as in ignore all their neighbors, and even if they could the current President doesn't want to do that and most of the protesters don't either.
 
Can't they not join the EU and not become subservient to Russia, and just be a sovereign country?

The Old World still doesn't get it.

Yeah, the New World gets it with their massive super states comprised of culturally diverse smaller ones.
 
Wow Barroso sure is showing things didn't go as they planned. My question, if the Ukrainian people didn't revolt so violently would they have changed their systems? I doubt it. These acts are atrocious, but I doubt they had any other choice to make change. Apparently these people see their own atrocities, violence of this level doesn't go unprompted.
 
Wow Barroso sure is showing things didn't go as they planned. My question, if the Ukrainian people didn't revolt so violently would they have changed their systems? I doubt it. These acts are atrocious, but I doubt they had any other choice to make change. Apparently these people see their own atrocities, violence of this level doesn't go unprompted.

Blood is the only coin that can purchase freedom and liberty.
 
looks good, I love the fascist going down hard at the end. We need protesters with balls like that in OWS for real CHANGE in USA.

I would agree with you, except OWS would not be who I support. Unlike OWS, I prefer freedom and liberty to the slavery of socialism.
 
The US and European influences in the Ukraine is the continuation of the Cold War strategies of who can get economic interests. We want leadership that will make deals with European countries for gas and oil energy, while Russia wants to keep Gazprom in control.

Same thing with the Mid East and Venezuela, and while I understand our need for a role in geopolitical struggles we often overplay our hand with internal meddling. The idealistic notion (delusion) of bringing democracy to cultures, not ready to make such complete changes, was really about bringing our version of capitalism to untapped sources. I'm not sure our political leaders can separate a helping hand in other societies from advancing the wealth of their corporate cronies, at almost any human cost.
 
I would agree with you, except OWS would not be who I support. Unlike OWS, I prefer freedom and liberty to the slavery of socialism.

"freedom and libery" means slavery to the trans national corporations and the unelected CEO.
 
"freedom and libery" means slavery to the trans national corporations and the unelected CEO.

You're poisoning this thread...

This isn't about anything you've been talking about. This is about a government that maintains itself in power by force despite losing all legitimacy to govern over the people... and the struggle that the people face every day, under pain of death, to restore themselves to the rightful place that the people hold in a democracy -> the people are in power, not the govt.
 
Somebody hasn't been watching Russia Today, the Moscow Fox News
 
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