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Thread: CBO Says Minimum-Wage Rise May Ease Poverty, Cost Jobs

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    Re: CBO Says Minimum-Wage Rise May Ease Poverty, Cost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    If they did, I wonder if people would take jobs at Walmart (etc) for the current salary. I would guess they would be far less inclined too and Walmart (etc) would end up having to increase wages.
    They wouldn't have to. Walmart will never have a labor shortage, due to the low-skilled nature of their employees.

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    Re: CBO Says Minimum-Wage Rise May Ease Poverty, Cost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Oh for crying out loud. I just did my taxes, and my earned income was about $34,000. But I'm a greedy 1%'er because I recognize foolish, faith-based economics when I see it?
    So you're just the messenger for the rich. Why low income people support these systems blows me away.


    That's an interesting claim. Can you post a single example of me ever saying so?
    Your argument was that if any profit is cut into it would break the system.

    Nope. I'd love to see the incomes of all Americans, poor, middle, and upper incomes improve. I want to see those who are unemployed find jobs. That's one of the reasons I oppose foolish, destructive policies like increasing the minimum wage.
    The unemployed are never going to get jobs unless consumer spending increases. Consumer spending cannot increase unless consumers have more money to spend through stimulus. Raising minimum wage would be stimulus. Lowering wages so everyone has a job would just result in millions of people making 4$ an hour. That is what Cuba does, they pay their workers crap and have virtually no unemployment.

    So.... is the decision to respond with untutored attempts at mocking an implicit admission that you lack a better response.?
    Its nonsense, the powerful trick the poor into taking smaller amounts of money home every year. You're just another sucker who has bought the lie.

    There is no more "welfare" as we know it. If you are referring to recipients of various forms of our social safety net, then yes, the numbers of people who must work in order to receive the EITC do indeed make most "welfare" recipients into workers. That does not in any way change the fact that SSDI and SNAP in particular have seen explosions in the last handful of years. Even the New York Times admitted that ending long-term unemployment benefits would likely result in a decrease in unemployment, as people took lower-paying jobs than what they used to have.
    This is another case where your logic makes zero sense. The reason the welfare programs have exploded in use is because of... the... recession.... and.... low... stagnant... wages.... How you think paying everyone less would fix this is beyond me. Do you think paying everyone $5 an hour would result in nobody on welfare?

    [quote]I'm not complaining about people drawing assistance. I think that it is idiotic the way that we structure assistance so as to encourage people to opt for it rather than increasing their earned income.[quote]This is a common myth that people choose between welfare or working. You should already realize that most of the people on welfare are... already... working... they are not choosing to sit at home to collect their $90 a month.

    That is correct, I am right about that. The Medicare Trustees, the CBO, the GAO, the IMF, President Obama's own Bipartisan Debt Reduction Commission, President Clinton, Paul Ryan, and everyone in between all agree with me on that, however, so it's not as if I've come to any particularly unique conclusion.
    The current thinking has largely been austerity and it hasn't worked very well. We are starting to talk about more Keynesian solutions finally. You think this is a plus but it is actually an omission of failure.

    SSDI, for example, is currently scheduled to go broke in 2016, as it has ballooned in recent years.
    When you bend over backwards to create tax breaks for the rich and "starve the beast" what you end up with is exactly what they wanted. Blame republicans for this.

    you're going to have to sell that song to someone else. I have never paid an effective tax rate of 25%, in fact, reliably, I have paid a negative tax rate. I barely made it into the negatives this year, but that is because apparently we punish low-income people for the crime of attempting to supplement low earned incomes by saving and investing.
    If you're a productive employee then you pay taxes. The company you work for collects the surplus value and they pay your taxes in their name. If you would like we could drop their tax rate 10%, give you a comparative raise, then tax you at 10% to make you feel better about it.

    I don't know about "clamp down", in some cases of habitual abusers, perhaps. But I'm a somewhat optimistic fellow, and my bet would be that the majority of those folks are simply following the deeply flawed short-term incentive structure that we give them. When a working mom faces a welfare cliff, of course she isn't going to try to earn more income - why in the world would she lower her childrens' standard of living in order to work more?
    Same myth again, you don't lose money when you work.

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    Re: CBO Says Minimum-Wage Rise May Ease Poverty, Cost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryChinaski View Post
    Yes they do. Ohh, my favorite right wing buzz word "entitlement program" Not "I work a full time job for a company that doesn't pay me enough to stock my pantry with enough food, so I have to supplement my dietary needs through a government program funded by the tax-payer"
    If you don't make enough at Walmart to live the lifestyle you wish to live, I would suggest you increase your skillset for a better paying employer, or do something that makes you an invaluable member and subject to a merit increase. If that's still not an option, I'd suggest you get 3 or 4 roommates. Maybe I don't think Walmart employees should have their own apartment and new car. I don't believe that they've earned it.

    Call it whatever you want, but you're an entitlement baby.

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    Re: CBO Says Minimum-Wage Rise May Ease Poverty, Cost Jobs

    I work in a mail room for one of the big three accounting firms. Before I got hired they had outsourced the labor through a third party company. The employees were bottom barrel workers making $9.00 and they got $9.00 worth of work. At the time they hired me they changed their ideology and went in-house with the hiring. They pay me nearly double and they receive top notch service and loyalty for that salary. A business gets what it pays for when it comes to their workers.
    Last edited by HenryChinaski; 02-19-14 at 06:27 PM.
    Give a man a fish and he can eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he can sit in a boat, drinking beer all day while you fool around with his Woman.

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    Re: CBO Says Minimum-Wage Rise May Ease Poverty, Cost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    I swear, these Democrats have a third-grade understanding of economics.

    Fewer workers will be asked to do more work. Companies budget for employee overhead, and profit margins are set according to risk. Those numbers will not change.

    The only result of this will be higher unemployment. Way to go, nimrods.
    3-25-2010_Hank_Johnson_Guam_Tip_Over.wmv - YouTube

    THIRD grade education period above is the link to hank johnson thinking an island would flip over. I am sure you have seen this before BUT darn it needs to be repeated time and time again. Just so NONE forget it.

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    Re: CBO Says Minimum-Wage Rise May Ease Poverty, Cost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    If you don't make enough at Walmart to live the lifestyle you wish to live, I would suggest you increase your skillset for a better paying employer, or do something that makes you an invaluable member and subject to a merit increase. If that's still not an option, I'd suggest you get 3 or 4 roommates. Maybe I don't think Walmart employees should have their own apartment and new car. I don't believe that they've earned it.

    Call it whatever you want, but you're an entitlement baby.
    In theory that sounds great. However not everyone is cut out for that, for whatever reason. Some are destined to just be worker bees. And if every single person managed to go all the way and become a Doctor, Lawyer or Indian chief, then there'd be a hell of a lot of Unemployed Doctor's, Lawyers and Indian Chiefs stocking shelves and sweeping floors.
    Give a man a fish and he can eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he can sit in a boat, drinking beer all day while you fool around with his Woman.

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    Re: CBO Says Minimum-Wage Rise May Ease Poverty, Cost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryChinaski View Post
    Bull crap. Wal-Mart rakes in record profits while they pay wages where their employees must utilize tax payer funds to supplement their basic needs. There is something seriously wrong with that. We just don't agree with what that something is.
    Then if someone has a problem with Wal-Mart and it's practices, they should seek employment elsewhere? Perhaps at the Costco touted as paying a 'fair living wage'?

    What is 'seriously wrong' is a government believing they can correct a problem by involving themselves in people's personal lives.
    Building block or stumbling block.... choose.

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    Re: CBO Says Minimum-Wage Rise May Ease Poverty, Cost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryChinaski View Post
    In theory that sounds great. However not everyone is cut out for that, for whatever reason. Some are destined to just be worker bees. And if every single person managed to go all the way and become a Doctor, Lawyer or Indian chief, then there'd be a hell of a lot of Unemployed Doctor's, Lawyers and Indian Chiefs stocking shelves and sweeping floors.
    Well, according to your analogy, you seem to be an indian that wants to be a chief. Society works better when people know their roles.

    And you're right - not everyone is cut out for that. Not everyone is also cut out to own a car less than 5 years old and have their own place large enough to walk around freely. Some people are cut out to live like Mexicans. Bummer for them.

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    Re: CBO Says Minimum-Wage Rise May Ease Poverty, Cost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    They wouldn't have to. Walmart will never have a labor shortage, due to the low-skilled nature of their employees.
    I dunno.. If potential employees didn't have the ability to fall back on welfare to the extent they currently do, it wouldn't be worth it for many to take a job where they make an amount that doesn't allow them take care of themselves. I would guess that some would drop out of the labor market, creating a shortage.

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    Re: CBO Says Minimum-Wage Rise May Ease Poverty, Cost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Well, according to your analogy, you seem to be an indian that wants to be a chief. Society works better when people know their roles.

    And you're right - not everyone is cut out for that. Not everyone is also cut out to own a car less than 5 years old and have their own place large enough to walk around freely. Some people are cut out to live like Mexicans. Bummer for them.
    I live in an area with a very large Mexican population. What do they live like?
    Give a man a fish and he can eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he can sit in a boat, drinking beer all day while you fool around with his Woman.

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