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Thread: CBO Says Minimum-Wage Rise May Ease Poverty, Cost Jobs

  1. #151
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    Re: CBO Says Minimum-Wage Rise May Ease Poverty, Cost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    This is standard nonsense the greedy trot out when their rigged game is explored
    Oh for crying out loud. I just did my taxes, and my earned income was about $34,000. But I'm a greedy 1%'er because I recognize foolish, faith-based economics when I see it?

    You think all profit belongs to the rich
    That's an interesting claim. Can you post a single example of me ever saying so?

    and if anyone gets a little more it will be the end of the economy and socialism will take over.
    Nope. I'd love to see the incomes of all Americans, poor, middle, and upper incomes improve. I want to see those who are unemployed find jobs. That's one of the reasons I oppose foolish, destructive policies like increasing the minimum wage.

    I've seen this bs my whole life, its petty bully tactics to convince people they'd better take that small paycheck and shutup.
    So.... is the decision to respond with untutored attempts at mocking an implicit admission that you lack a better response.?

    Then you complain about welfare, most welfare recipients work ya know.
    There is no more "welfare" as we know it. If you are referring to recipients of various forms of our social safety net, then yes, the numbers of people who must work in order to receive the EITC do indeed make most "welfare" recipients into workers. That does not in any way change the fact that SSDI and SNAP in particular have seen explosions in the last handful of years. Even the New York Times admitted that ending long-term unemployment benefits would likely result in a decrease in unemployment, as people took lower-paying jobs than what they used to have.

    You can't have it both ways... you can't pay poverty wages then complain about those same people drawing welfare because their job doesn't pay enough.
    I'm not complaining about people drawing assistance. I think that it is idiotic the way that we structure assistance so as to encourage people to opt for it rather than increasing their earned income.

    Yes you're right, entitlements are breaking the country.
    That is correct, I am right about that. The Medicare Trustees, the CBO, the GAO, the IMF, President Obama's own Bipartisan Debt Reduction Commission, President Clinton, Paul Ryan, and everyone in between all agree with me on that, however, so it's not as if I've come to any particularly unique conclusion.

    SSDI, for example, is currently scheduled to go broke in 2016, as it has ballooned in recent years.

    Corporate welfare, tax cuts for the rich, an effective tax rate of < 15% for billionaires, effective taxes of 25% or more on the working poor.
    you're going to have to sell that song to someone else. I have never paid an effective tax rate of 25%, in fact, reliably, I have paid a negative tax rate. I barely made it into the negatives this year, but that is because apparently we punish low-income people for the crime of attempting to supplement low earned incomes by saving and investing.

    We really need to clamp down on the freeloaders who milk the real workers for all they're worth.
    I don't know about "clamp down", in some cases of habitual abusers, perhaps. But I'm a somewhat optimistic fellow, and my bet would be that the majority of those folks are simply following the deeply flawed short-term incentive structure that we give them. When a working mom faces a welfare cliff, of course she isn't going to try to earn more income - why in the world would she lower her childrens' standard of living in order to work more?

  2. #152
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    Re: CBO Says Minimum-Wage Rise May Ease Poverty, Cost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Hi. This is a discussion about economics. This isn't a discussion about "fair".

    No company has an obligation to bend to what you personally think is "fair".
    As part of the bigger picture a company has the obligation to pay a wage that doesn't require the taxpayer to pick up the rest of those working stiffs salaries through welfare programs. Gotta love it, Wal-Mart employees collect SNAP and wind up using those Government Dole funds at Walmart. It's a win win for them. They pay enough to keep their worker bees living on the fringe and rake in Government cash when the workers get their monthly welfare checks.
    Last edited by HenryChinaski; 02-19-14 at 05:46 PM.
    Give a man a fish and he can eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he can sit in a boat, drinking beer all day while you fool around with his Woman.

  3. #153
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    Re: CBO Says Minimum-Wage Rise May Ease Poverty, Cost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryChinaski View Post
    As part of the bigger picture a company has the obligation to
    No, they don't.

    pay a wage that doesn't require the taxpayer to pick up the rest of those working stiffs salaries through welfare programs. Gotta love it, Wal-Mart employees collect SNAP and wind up using those Government Dole funds at Walmart. It's a win win for them. They pay enough to keep their worker bees living on the fringe and rake in Government cash when the workers get their monthly welfare checks.
    Sounds like a good argument to cut entitlement programs.

    You're right insofar that we shouldn't reward people for aspiring to Walmart plebe.

  4. #154
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    Re: CBO Says Minimum-Wage Rise May Ease Poverty, Cost Jobs

    CPWill you screwed up your quotes and I don't feel like sifting through it to fix it, so this is my reply to your last post.

    The logic in your business example is so bizarre and twisted it is incomprehensible psychobabble. You've attributed cause effect in so many different directions it borders on insanity. The idea that a business paying it's workers $100 more would result in a 98% net loss for everyone involved is such incredible hyperbole I have to wonder where you get these ideas from.

    Yes Wal-Mart's cheap goods have some positive effects. However they also have negative effects on the surrounding community. You have to weigh the entire net effect of this kind of business. Cheap goods but they pay poverty wages for everyone who works there. The profit is funneled out of the community. Watch "Wal-Mart: The High Cost of Low Prices" for another perspective on this. These low wage workers become welfare cases that the state government has to prop up, subsidizing Wal-Mart's profits. The workers can less afford healthcare if they get sick and run up the costs of healthcare because they can't pay the bills. These things do not strengthen the community, they weaken it terribly.

    The point I've made numerous times in this thread is that the majority of people are median, they will be paid a median, low wage. That is the problem with the middle class, the median class, they have too little spending power. Individual achievement is not going to magically fix this. We're talking about the economy, not how individuals can improve their lives.

    At the end you revert to a laissez faire worldview where you think if we just let things play out it will fix everything and be great. We've already tried this many times, it doesn't work. What we end up with is a wild, unbalanced system that breaks everything as it spins out of control. It just happened back in 2007 and you guys still don't get it. You de-regulate and let things play out and what you get is a violent game where the big players loot and pillage and the common person foots the bill.

  5. #155
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    Re: CBO Says Minimum-Wage Rise May Ease Poverty, Cost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    I've tried to explain to you several times now your mistake and it just bounces right off of you.
    You haven't explained anything. You've simply made statements.
    TANSTAAFL

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  6. #156
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    Re: CBO Says Minimum-Wage Rise May Ease Poverty, Cost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Sounds like a good argument to cut entitlement programs.
    If they did, I wonder if people would take jobs at Walmart (etc) for the current salary. I would guess they would be far less inclined too and Walmart (etc) would end up having to increase wages.

  7. #157
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    Re: CBO Says Minimum-Wage Rise May Ease Poverty, Cost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryChinaski View Post
    As part of the bigger picture a company has the obligation to pay a wage that doesn't require the taxpayer to pick up the rest of those working stiffs salaries through welfare programs. Gotta love it, Wal-Mart employees collect SNAP and wind up using those Government Dole funds at Walmart. It's a win win for them. They pay enough to keep their worker bees living on the fringe and rake in Government cash when the workers get their monthly welfare checks.
    No the worker has an 'obligation' (since you want to call it that) to make the amount of money to support their own needs. It's no one else's responsibility but the person themselves.

    If an overall increase of wages, such as raising the minimum wage may temporarily provide additional purchasing power for those at FMW level, but a reduction of purchasing power for those who are above FMW as prices rise based on the cost of labor.
    Building block or stumbling block.... choose.

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    Re: CBO Says Minimum-Wage Rise May Ease Poverty, Cost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    Another person clinging to semantics... seriously what is wrong with you guys? I explain very clearly what I'm talking about and you just go for red herrings over and over.

    Do you have no argument other than to obsess over terms?
    Verax, words...and their meaning...matter. As I told you before, you shouldn't go around making up your own definitions because people won't know what the hell you are talking about...and because it shows that YOU don't know what the hell you are talking about.

    That's why people "obsess over terms".
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    Re: CBO Says Minimum-Wage Rise May Ease Poverty, Cost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    No, they don't.



    Sounds like a good argument to cut entitlement programs.

    You're right insofar that we shouldn't reward people for aspiring to Walmart plebe.
    Yes they do. Ohh, my favorite right wing buzz word "entitlement program" Not "I work a full time job for a company that doesn't pay me enough to stock my pantry with enough food, so I have to supplement my dietary needs through a government program funded by the tax-payer"
    Give a man a fish and he can eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he can sit in a boat, drinking beer all day while you fool around with his Woman.

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    Re: CBO Says Minimum-Wage Rise May Ease Poverty, Cost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
    No the worker has an 'obligation' (since you want to call it that) to make the amount of money to support their own needs. It's no one else's responsibility but the person themselves.

    If an overall increase of wages, such as raising the minimum wage may temporarily provide additional purchasing power for those at FMW level, but a reduction of purchasing power for those who are above FMW as prices rise based on the cost of labor.
    Bull crap. Wal-Mart rakes in record profits while they pay wages where their employees must utilize tax payer funds to supplement their basic needs. There is something seriously wrong with that. We just don't agree with what that something is.
    Give a man a fish and he can eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he can sit in a boat, drinking beer all day while you fool around with his Woman.

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