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Thread: CBO Says Minimum-Wage Rise May Ease Poverty, Cost Jobs

  1. #101
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    Re: CBO Says Minimum-Wage Rise May Ease Poverty, Cost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    I haven't made any matter-of-fact statements to prove in this thread (to my knowledge).

    You did.

    Plus - I really don't care much whether you believe me or not.


    You don't want to 'play' anymore...absolutely fine with me.


    Good day.
    Here I did your research for you. Is this all wrong and biased too?

    http://www.cepr.net/documents/public...ge-2013-02.pdf

    http://www.irle.berkeley.edu/workingpapers/181-09.pdf

    http://www.irle.berkeley.edu/workingpapers/157-07.pdf

    http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc...=rep1&type=pdf

    http://nelp.3cdn.net/e555b2e361f8f734f4_sim6btdzo.pdf

    Why "Good Jobs" Are Good for Retailers - Harvard Business Review

    http://www.irle.berkeley.edu/workingpapers/122-12.pdf

    http://www.epi.org/files/2013/bp357-...e-increase.pdf

    Poor Sales, Not High Wages, Worry Small Businesses | CEPR Blog

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    Re: CBO Says Minimum-Wage Rise May Ease Poverty, Cost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    That's your proof of your statement:

    ''The "free market" is not going to raise wages for low skilled workers any time soon if in our lifetimes.'?

    Noted.
    Do you know what the market is? I posted a graph showing how the market is completely dominated by service sector jobs. Would you like to dispute that service sector jobs are generally low paying and low skilled? Would you like to dispute that future jobs in the U.S. are likely to be dominated by service jobs?

    You're not delivering any argument whatsoever... you're just standing back and claiming I've got nothin'.

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    Re: CBO Says Minimum-Wage Rise May Ease Poverty, Cost Jobs

    That's more like it...I give you credit for posting so many links...kudos.


    However, I should tell you, they mean little to me...though I promise I will endeavor to take a boo at them.

    There is no way that I could possibly imagine that you could convince me that raising the minimum wage is good for America.

    It just goes against fundamental free market principles and - imo - macroeconomic common sense.

    Paying people 39% more money (which this increase would be) by government order for a zero increase in productivity is no way to help an economy, imo.

    As for unskilled workers that get left behind...tough.

    They have plenty of welfare available - so their survival is not in danger - so I have near-zero pity.

    And if they want more in life, they better find a desirable skill and learn it.

    Oh, and if you want more jobs for Americans? Just tell the Fed to end their QE's, let rates rise on their own PLUS tell the government to balance the budget AND start calculating the CPI as a straight up inflation mark..and not a cost-of-living one (which it is).

    The jobs will (after an initial rough patch ) grow substantially compared with today, I believe.


    Now there is clearly no point in trying to convince you as your mind seems made up.

    And you are not going to change my mind (imo).

    So further discussion on this is pointless.

    I just wanted to see if this study you linked to had any data attached to back it up.
    Last edited by DA60; 02-19-14 at 04:24 AM.

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    Re: CBO Says Minimum-Wage Rise May Ease Poverty, Cost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    Do you know what the market is? I posted a graph showing how the market is completely dominated by service sector jobs. Would you like to dispute that service sector jobs are generally low paying and low skilled? Would you like to dispute that future jobs in the U.S. are likely to be dominated by service jobs?

    You're not delivering any argument whatsoever... you're just standing back and claiming I've got nothin'.
    You are missing the (imo) obvious...your statement ('The "free market" is not going to raise wages for low skilled workers any time soon if in our lifetimes.') is IMPOSSIBLE to prove.

    You cannot know what the future holds...it is beyond ANYONE's ability.

    So for you to say that you know what the future holds under certain circumstances is totally erroneous.

    You can hope, believe or be convinced..but you cannot know.

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    Re: CBO Says Minimum-Wage Rise May Ease Poverty, Cost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    That's more like it...I give you credit for posting so many links...kudos.


    However, I should tell you, they mean little to me...though I promise I will endeavor to take a boo at them.

    There is no way that I could possibly imagine that you could convince me that raising the minimum wage is good for America.

    It just goes against fundamental free market principles and - imo - macroeconomic common sense.

    Paying people 39% more money (which this increase would be) by government order for a zero increase in productivity is no way to help an economy, imo.

    As for unskilled workers that get left behind...tough.

    They have plenty of welfare available - so their survival is not in danger - so I have near-zero pity.

    And if they want more in life, they better find a desirable skill and learn it.


    Now there is clearly no point in trying to convince you as your mind seems made up.

    And you are not going to change my mind (imo).

    So further discussion on this is pointless.

    I just wanted to see if this study you linked to had any data attached to back it up.
    They mean little to you because you think you know better than any of them? Do you have any education or work experience in economics? You really think Nobel prize winning economists opinions and research are not as good as yours?

    Your solution for America is "tough"?

    You think Americans on welfare as no other means are available is ok?

    I've already made the argument that unskilled workers cannot all better themselves because almost all the jobs are unskilled service sector based... you really don't understand any of this do you?

    My mind is never made up, I learn and adapt as time goes on. If strong evidence points to all this being wrong I will change my position.

    You've really showed your hand and it is empty. Things you think in your head on a whim have little to do with reality. Leave economics up to the experts or at least follow expert opinion and research.

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    Re: CBO Says Minimum-Wage Rise May Ease Poverty, Cost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    You are missing the (imo) obvious...your statement ('The "free market" is not going to raise wages for low skilled workers any time soon if in our lifetimes.') is IMPOSSIBLE to prove.

    You cannot know what the future holds...it is beyond ANYONE's ability.

    So for you to say that you know what the future holds under certain circumstances is totally erroneous.

    You can hope, believe or be convinced..but you cannot know.
    Now you're playing semantics and attacking the fact that I do not have a crystal ball. What I said was a projection of my opinion of where I thought the U.S. was headed. You do realize all research and thoughts on the future are projections, right? If you would like we could discuss that projection but instead you decided to just run off.

    Looks like you're the one who has nothin'.

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    Re: CBO Says Minimum-Wage Rise May Ease Poverty, Cost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    They mean little to you because you think you know better than any of them? Do you have any education or work experience in economics? You really think Nobel prize winning economists opinions and research are not as good as yours?

    Your solution for America is "tough"?

    You think Americans on welfare as no other means are available is ok?

    I've already made the argument that unskilled workers cannot all better themselves because almost all the jobs are unskilled service sector based... you really don't understand any of this do you?

    My mind is never made up, I learn and adapt as time goes on. If strong evidence points to all this being wrong I will change my position.

    You've really showed your hand and it is empty. Things you think in your head on a whim have little to do with reality. Leave economics up to the experts or at least follow expert opinion and research.
    There you go again...assuming.

    I make a statement - and you start reading between the lines and filling in what you want...instead of just taking the actual words I use and nothing else.

    In other words, you are - imo - in essence, putting words in my mouth...and I will not debate with people who do that.

    Either debate the EXACT words I use and NONE other or I cannot be bothered.


    I am not wasting any further time with you on this.

    I have said what I think are some of the solutions for American workers as opposed to forcing the minimum wage up by 39%.

    You don't agree...so be it.


    We are done here for now.
    Last edited by DA60; 02-19-14 at 04:42 AM.

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    Re: CBO Says Minimum-Wage Rise May Ease Poverty, Cost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    Now you're playing semantics and attacking the fact that I do not have a crystal ball. What I said was a projection of my opinion of where I thought the U.S. was headed. You do realize all research and thoughts on the future are projections, right? If you would like we could discuss that projection but instead you decided to just run off.

    Looks like you're the one who has nothin'.
    Call it what you like...I like exactitude.

    I don't always follow it, but I try.

    If you are going to make matter-of-fact statements without any concern for their accuracy, please don't go whining when someone points it out to you.

    Spend a few more seconds to make the statement accurate and no one will call you on it.

    A simple 'I believe' instead of 'it is' is a good place to start.

    And if you had not been - imo - rather rude to people (who seemed to have been civil to you initially); I would not have bothered. But you were (imo), so I did.


    Good day.
    Last edited by DA60; 02-19-14 at 04:41 AM.

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    Re: CBO Says Minimum-Wage Rise May Ease Poverty, Cost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    Generally people get raises every year. Higher level positions pay slightly more, like from cart pusher to working the service desk. We're talking from 7.25 to 8, to 9, to 10 if you've been there for years and have moved up slightly two levels... These are not big numbers and can barely be called more.
    Barely be called more? What does that mean? Are they more or not? The starting wage at both Walmart and Target is more than minimum wage.

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    Re: CBO Says Minimum-Wage Rise May Ease Poverty, Cost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Barely be called more? What does that mean? Are they more or not? The starting wage at both Walmart and Target is more than minimum wage.
    Mornin' Buck. This morning over 3 MS Media News Stations......all said the same thing about how Economists cannot agree on this issue. So all those stats really aren't saying much.

    Once again they talk about raising the wage....would only benefit those on the lower end spectrum of the middle class and the lesser of those who are Poor. Like borderline.

    The real poor would suffer over the rise in prices of things they need on a daily basis.

    This is not some science that any economists can emphatically stand together in consensus.

    Course with Obamcare costing jobs and now this.....it sure isn't helping his argument about getting rid of poverty either.

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