Page 9 of 23 FirstFirst ... 789101119 ... LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 221

Thread: Fears of more protest clashes high in Venezuela

  1. #81
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,274

    Re: Fears of more protest clashes high in Venezuela

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    No, but that decision making would not happen if it was not for the "old history". Chavez would never have been put in power had it not been for the US backed right wing governments over the decades that increased poverty in Venezuela. Because of this there is a reaction to the total opposite side and we see somewhat the end result today.

    It is no different than centuries of right wing royalist governments resulted in the rise of socialism and communism...
    During those "US backed right wing governments" as you put it, US approval among the Venezuelan citizens stood at 82%, once Chavez started raping that country that approval dropped dramatically to around the 31% range, even though trade remained at all time highs even when Chavez was calling Bush the devil at the UN gathering.

    To me, that signals that the people don't want to be in a socialist controlled government, and blame the US for this happening....Funny thing is, that to improve the peoples lives there would entail a total US involvement, and nation building....Not going to happen...So, damned if you do, damned if you don't....Venezuelan's allow this to happen, and continue to look to others to 'save' them from the failed policy of Socialism that the central America's seem to embrace....Until THEY make their own decision that it doesn't work, we can not help them....So if it makes you feel better to blame others for the failures of their own choosing then so be it, but it is a lie.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  2. #82
    Sage
    Montecresto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Last Seen
    03-13-16 @ 11:59 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    24,561

    Re: Fears of more protest clashes high in Venezuela

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    The situation in a number of countries was dangerous to the stability required to maintain, what was a world wide effort. The US could not control everything itself nor could it have survived a destabilization of the near abroad. So it more or less let the elites of the countries do, what they thought necessary to secure the required stability and helped where it seemed necessary. So yes. I think that the collateral damage was sad. But I don't see how anything else was possible.
    Excusing US interventions that toppled democratically elected governments, installing dictators does not bring stability, and is typical of those who refuse to hold the US accountable for its atrocities. It had nothing to do with stability and everything to do with corporate exploitation. But you feel better about yourself I suppose in believing we were doing good.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  3. #83
    Sage
    Montecresto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Last Seen
    03-13-16 @ 11:59 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    24,561

    Re: Fears of more protest clashes high in Venezuela

    Special Report: A newly discovered document reveals that President Reagan and his national security team in 1981 approved Guatemala’s extermination of both leftist guerrillas and their “civilian support mechanisms,” a green light that opened a path to genocide against hundreds of Mayan villages.

    Soon after taking office in 1981, President Ronald Reagan’s national security team agreed to supply military aid to the brutal right-wing regime in Guatemala to pursue the goal of exterminating not only “Marxist guerrillas” but their “civilian support mechanisms,” according to a newly disclosed document from the National Archives.

    Over the next several years, the military assistance from the Reagan administration assisted the Guatemalan army in doing just that, engaging in the slaughter of some 100,000 people, including what a truth commission deemed genocide against the Mayan Indians in the northern highlands.

    - See more at: Reagan, Guatamalan Genocide and The Rockefellers United Fruit Company | Thom Hartmann - News & info from the #1 progressive radio show
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  4. #84
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,274

    Re: Fears of more protest clashes high in Venezuela

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Special Report: A newly discovered document reveals that President Reagan and his national security team in 1981 approved Guatemala’s extermination of both leftist guerrillas and their “civilian support mechanisms,” a green light that opened a path to genocide against hundreds of Mayan villages.

    Soon after taking office in 1981, President Ronald Reagan’s national security team agreed to supply military aid to the brutal right-wing regime in Guatemala to pursue the goal of exterminating not only “Marxist guerrillas” but their “civilian support mechanisms,” according to a newly disclosed document from the National Archives.

    Over the next several years, the military assistance from the Reagan administration assisted the Guatemalan army in doing just that, engaging in the slaughter of some 100,000 people, including what a truth commission deemed genocide against the Mayan Indians in the northern highlands.

    - See more at: Reagan, Guatamalan Genocide and The Rockefellers United Fruit Company | Thom Hartmann - News & info from the #1 progressive radio show
    What? You mean to tell me that the US is not a supporter of Marxists/Communists? I am shocked!
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  5. #85
    Sage
    Montecresto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Last Seen
    03-13-16 @ 11:59 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    24,561

    Re: Fears of more protest clashes high in Venezuela

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    What? You mean to tell me that the US is not a supporter of Marxists/Communists? I am shocked!
    Nor a supporter of human rights!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  6. #86
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,274

    Re: Fears of more protest clashes high in Venezuela

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Nor a supporter of human rights!
    You think that Marxism/Communism supports "Human rights"?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  7. #87
    Sage
    PeteEU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Denmark
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:12 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    29,090

    Re: Fears of more protest clashes high in Venezuela

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    During those "US backed right wing governments" as you put it, US approval among the Venezuelan citizens stood at 82%, once Chavez started raping that country that approval dropped dramatically to around the 31% range, even though trade remained at all time highs even when Chavez was calling Bush the devil at the UN gathering.

    To me, that signals that the people don't want to be in a socialist controlled government, and blame the US for this happening....Funny thing is, that to improve the peoples lives there would entail a total US involvement, and nation building....Not going to happen...So, damned if you do, damned if you don't....Venezuelan's allow this to happen, and continue to look to others to 'save' them from the failed policy of Socialism that the central America's seem to embrace....Until THEY make their own decision that it doesn't work, we can not help them....So if it makes you feel better to blame others for the failures of their own choosing then so be it, but it is a lie.
    Listen.. yes people voted for Chavez, and they got what they got. Point is that they voted for him because the largely conservative right wing parties had abandoned them. And "them" are the majority of Venezuelans. Now had the largely conservative right wing parties not been utterly corrupt to big business and the elite 1%, and actually represented the people when in power.. then there would have been no overreaction aka moving to Chavez.

    Also it does not help that these same right wing forces in Venezuela then try to remove Chavez via a coup and by all accounts these coup makers were very much supported by the US. Now even if it was not true (it was of course at least partly true), the damage is done because of the accusation and the fact that the US has done similar before in multiple countries in Central and South America. All the failed coup did was to embolden the majority downtrodden masses that vote for Chavez and his party. It gave Chavez and his people the excuse to hit down on the opposition and media outlets..

    In the end it is the people of Venezuela that have to do the change and move more towards the centre, but as it stands now that wont happen. What we see in Venezuela has quite a few similarities to other countries where the elected governments were undermined by right wing opposition and the US and I have no doubt that Chavez's side will exploit that for now, regardless if it is true or not. It is what they are doing now. The idea of putting guards in supermarkets to prevent price gauging is the first step in nationalizing the whole thing.. why? Because those supermarkets are owned by the 1%, and have deep links to the right wing political parties and governments of the past. It is the same thing he did towards the media.

    As I see it, the only thing that can change Venezuela is if the military steps in and removes Maduro... unlike Chavez he aint a military man and the chaos in the country can get so bad that they feel compelled to step in. This will of course start a civil war.
    PeteEU

  8. #88
    Sage
    PeteEU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Denmark
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:12 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    29,090

    Re: Fears of more protest clashes high in Venezuela

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    You think that Marxism/Communism supports "Human rights"?
    More than conservatism/capitalism ever did.
    PeteEU

  9. #89
    Sage
    Montecresto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Last Seen
    03-13-16 @ 11:59 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    24,561

    Re: Fears of more protest clashes high in Venezuela

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    You think that Marxism/Communism supports "Human rights"?
    Killing 100,000 people is not pro human rights, menacing the Mayans to further your agenda, none of that is pro democracy.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  10. #90
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,274

    Re: Fears of more protest clashes high in Venezuela

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Killing 100,000 people is not pro human rights, menacing the Mayans to further your agenda, none of that is pro democracy.
    How many millions has Marxism/Communism killed? Keep an eye on the Ukraine
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

Page 9 of 23 FirstFirst ... 789101119 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •