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Thread: Fears of more protest clashes high in Venezuela

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    Re: Fears of more protest clashes high in Venezuela

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    And something you should think about.

    History matters.

    What the US did in the cold war does matter, both the good and bad. And in South and Central America's case most of what the US did was bad and the US of today can not run from this history.

    Sadly it seems some in the US wants to repeat that history and have learned nothing from the last 50+ years of supporting brutal dictators and not allowing people to live as they want.

    Chavez is just a reaction to this history, just as the Mullahs in Tehran are a reaction to this history and so on and so on and you can keep denying this and ignoring these facts, but that wont make them be less of a fact and it wont make them go away.
    You still didn't answer his question. Does old history excuse failures that result from present day decision making?

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    Re: Fears of more protest clashes high in Venezuela

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Yep. It was necessary, or seemed so at the time, to win the war.
    Figures that you would consider US atrocities in Latin America as necessary.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Fears of more protest clashes high in Venezuela

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Figures that you would consider US atrocities in Latin America as necessary.
    The situation in a number of countries was dangerous to the stability required to maintain, what was a world wide effort. The US could not control everything itself nor could it have survived a destabilization of the near abroad. So it more or less let the elites of the countries do, what they thought necessary to secure the required stability and helped where it seemed necessary. So yes. I think that the collateral damage was sad. But I don't see how anything else was possible.

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    Re: Fears of more protest clashes high in Venezuela

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    The situation in a number of countries was dangerous to the stability required to maintain, what was a world wide effort. The US could not control everything itself nor could it have survived a destabilization of the near abroad. So it more or less let the elites of the countries do, what they thought necessary to secure the required stability and helped where it seemed necessary. So yes. I think that the collateral damage was sad. But I don't see how anything else was possible.
    Well, I think the telling thing about US policy in Latin America is that it's too obvious that it is driven by commercial imperatives. There really is no strategic threat to the USA (Mexico and Cuba excepted), just American private business concerns. What possible threat to US security did a democratic, socialist Chile pose?
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

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    Re: Fears of more protest clashes high in Venezuela

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Well, I think the telling thing about US policy in Latin America is that it's too obvious that it is driven by commercial imperatives. There really is no strategic threat to the USA (Mexico and Cuba excepted), just American private business concerns. What possible threat to US security did a democratic, socialist Chile pose?
    I think you are right. Since the end of the Cold War there has been no visible strategic threat. The only issue has been the misguided War on Drugs.
    That could change with more self declared enemies and will become increasingly dangerous as multi polar structures gain weight. But that is another question that requires a different solution.

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    Re: Fears of more protest clashes high in Venezuela

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    I think you are right. Since the end of the Cold War there has been no visible strategic threat. The only issue has been the misguided War on Drugs.
    That could change with more self declared enemies and will become increasingly dangerous as multi polar structures gain weight. But that is another question that requires a different solution.
    I don't believe the US has any 'self-declared' enemies in Latin America, not even Maduro. It may perceive certain leaders and regimes in that light, but there's half the problem.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

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    Re: Fears of more protest clashes high in Venezuela

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    You still didn't answer his question. Does old history excuse failures that result from present day decision making?
    No, but that decision making would not happen if it was not for the "old history". Chavez would never have been put in power had it not been for the US backed right wing governments over the decades that increased poverty in Venezuela. Because of this there is a reaction to the total opposite side and we see somewhat the end result today.

    It is no different than centuries of right wing royalist governments resulted in the rise of socialism and communism...
    PeteEU

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    Re: Fears of more protest clashes high in Venezuela

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    No, but that decision making would not happen if it was not for the "old history". Chavez would never have been put in power had it not been for the US backed right wing governments over the decades that increased poverty in Venezuela. Because of this there is a reaction to the total opposite side and we see somewhat the end result today.

    It is no different than centuries of right wing royalist governments resulted in the rise of socialism and communism...
    It's like some people just don't grasp the concept of blowback.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: Fears of more protest clashes high in Venezuela

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    It's like some people just don't grasp the concept of blowback.
    Well most men should.. after all as a kid most men I know have tried to piss against the wind and gotten "blowback" Same principle!
    PeteEU

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    Re: Fears of more protest clashes high in Venezuela

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    I don't believe the US has any 'self-declared' enemies in Latin America, not even Maduro. It may perceive certain leaders and regimes in that light, but there's half the problem.
    At least Chaves is dead and the Castros are on their way out. But I think it would be rather naive to believe that the relative tranquility is stabil. South America is not my specialty, but having followed it since I was at the University from a distance, I feel rather certain that the undercurrents will cause problems, as multi polar forces come to baer.

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