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Thread: Tom Perkins' big idea: The rich should get more votes

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    Re: Tom Perkins' big idea: The rich should get more votes

    Quote Originally Posted by Anomalism View Post
    The founder probably cares more about the company, but chances are he could just retire comfortably after it goes bankrupt. That janitor might not find another job in time and end up losing everything.
    Cares more = more scrupulous in long-term policy-making = typically better governance

    Doesn't necessarily mean the company founder makes good decisions, but merely means he is less likely to make decisions based on short-term gain. Thus is the general paternal logic of the Founders, and Federalism in general (keep most decision-making as localized as possible).

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    Re: Tom Perkins' big idea: The rich should get more votes

    Quote Originally Posted by StringBean View Post
    Cares more = more scrupulous in long-term policy-making = typically better governance

    Doesn't necessarily mean the company founder makes good decisions, but merely means he is less likely to make decisions based on short-term gain. Thus is the general paternal logic of the Founders, and Federalism in general (keep most decision-making as localized as possible).
    Rich people caring about preserving their own best interests does not mean they will make decisions that benefit everybody else that lives in this country. It means they will make decisions that benefit themselves. I completely disagree with your logic here.

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    Re: Tom Perkins' big idea: The rich should get more votes

    Quote Originally Posted by Anomalism View Post
    Rich people caring about preserving their own best interests does not mean they will make decisions that benefit everybody else that lives in this country. It means they will make decisions that benefit themselves. I completely disagree with your logic here.
    It depends on whether their personal benefit extends to a greater good for others.

    If it is in the profitability of a company that employs 100 people, one would imagine their self-serving policies provide a common benefit to all in the company's purview.

    If it is in the value of real estate in their community, one would imagine their self-serving policies provide a common benefit to all members of that community.

    It is contradictory: that self-interest serves for the common good. But it has worked when properly regulated.

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    Re: Tom Perkins' big idea: The rich should get more votes

    Quote Originally Posted by StringBean View Post
    It depends on whether their personal benefit extends to a greater good for others.
    It often times doesn't. You might want to go talk to the Walton family.

    Quote Originally Posted by StringBean View Post
    If it is in the profitability of a company that employs 100 people, one would imagine their self-serving policies provide a common benefit to all in the company's purview.
    The company needs those employees just as much as those employees need the company. I disagree with the idea that the rich are doing the poor a favor by offering them low income jobs. Very few large companies actively seek to benefit their employees. They try to maximize income for themselves at the cost of as much employee pay as possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by StringBean View Post
    If it is in the value of real estate in their community, one would imagine their self-serving policies provide a common benefit to all members of that community.
    Most likely other wealthy people.

    Quote Originally Posted by StringBean View Post
    It is contradictory: that self-interest serves for the common good. But it has worked when properly regulated.
    That is exactly what most on the right wing don't want.

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    Re: Tom Perkins' big idea: The rich should get more votes

    Quote Originally Posted by Anomalism View Post
    It often times doesn't. You might want to go talk to the Walton family.
    Sam Walton created many thousands of jobs. That is a very good thing for his employees as well as the consumer. Everyone wins.

    The company needs those employees just as much as those employees need the company. I disagree with the idea that the rich are doing the poor a favor by offering them low income jobs. Very few large companies actively seek to benefit their employees. They try to maximize income for themselves at the cost of as much employee pay as possible.
    You have obviously never had employees. Good employees are hard to find and when employers have them they do everything they can to keep them. It is in their own self interest that they treat good employees well, and in the employees best interest to give honest work in order that they continue to be treated well.

    Most likely other wealthy people.
    What evidence do you have of that? I've worked as a volunteer in several organizations and the well off are often involved, just as are the middle classes.

    That is exactly what most on the right wing don't want.
    Again, what evidence do you have to make this claim?

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    Re: Tom Perkins' big idea: The rich should get more votes

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Sam Walton created many thousands of jobs. That is a very good thing for his employees as well as the consumer. Everyone wins.
    Walmart and other giant corporations have absolutely devastated communities by pushing many thousands of small businesses into bankruptcy. Those jobs that were "created" were filled by all of the people that now have nowhere else to work. Corporations like Walmart pay their employees badly because they know the government will pick up the tab to keep all of those people off the streets. People get government assistance that they should be getting from their paycheck and then turn around and spend it at these same corporations that didn't pay them enough to begin with. Poor people having access to better wages means less people on welfare and more money going back into the economy. Walmart and other giant corporations are the real welfare queens, and we need to stop allowing the government to subsidize their already obscene profits. They are completely self serving in every way, and that is exactly the point I was making. The rich generally seek to benefit themselves, not others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    You have obviously never had employees. Good employees are hard to find and when employers have them they do everything they can to keep them. It is in their own self interest that they treat good employees well, and in the employees best interest to give honest work in order that they continue to be treated well.
    Part of treating employees well is paying them a fair wage that they can actually live on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    What evidence do you have of that? I've worked as a volunteer in several organizations and the well off are often involved, just as are the middle classes.
    I was simply implying that the community a person chooses to live in is usually inhabited by other people of similar financial status.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Again, what evidence do you have to make this claim?
    Do you disagree that the right wing is typically against regulations?

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    Re: Tom Perkins' big idea: The rich should get more votes

    Quote Originally Posted by Anomalism View Post
    The oppressed rich are forced to pay way too many taxes. Wealth distribution in the United States clearly shows how badly their lifestyles are hindered by it. /s

    Maybe if things were less skewed in their favor everybody else would be capable of paying more taxes. Start paying people fair wages and stop allowing the government to subsidize corporations. When the 1% no longer control an insanely obscene amount of the wealth in this country I will consider their moaning about taxes to be slightly less ridiculous.
    You should absolutely start a business and pay people whatever you choose. I highly encourage it.

    The rich dont make people poor. The rich dont create poverty. The rich arent invested in creating a lower income class. The rich already carry the vast majority of the country. MEANWHILE...nearly 40% of all new business startups in America are created by immigrants...people that come here with nothing seeking only opportunity and manage to work their way up from less than zero to success. MEANWHILE, there are literally thousands of new millionaires joining the upwardly mobile ranks every year. MEANWHILE...there is no shortage of people whining about how unfair it is that the rich have money and they dont, and about how the deck is always stacked against them, and how it sucks that mom doesnt stock more mountain dew and doritos.

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    Re: Tom Perkins' big idea: The rich should get more votes

    Quote Originally Posted by Anomalism View Post
    Walmart and other giant corporations have absolutely devastated communities by pushing many thousands of small businesses into bankruptcy. Those jobs that were "created" were filled by all of the people that now have nowhere else to work. Corporations like Walmart pay their employees badly because they know the government will pick up the tab to keep all of those people off the streets. People get government assistance that they should be getting from their paycheck and then turn around and spend it at these same corporations that didn't pay them enough to begin with. Poor people having access to better wages means less people on welfare and more money going back into the economy. Walmart and other giant corporations are the real welfare queens, and we need to stop allowing the government to subsidize their already obscene profits. They are completely self serving in every way, and that is exactly the point I was making. The rich generally seek to benefit themselves, not others.
    Apparently the consumer benefited from Walmart and making customers happy is a major concern of every business. If the customers are not happy then the business will fail, and that happens every day. There is no mystery here. And of course no one is obliged to work at Wal-MArt
    Part of treating employees well is paying them a fair wage that they can actually live on.
    That's up to the employer and employee.
    I was simply implying that the community a person chooses to live in is usually inhabited by other people of similar financial status.
    Yes, that is often the case.
    Do you disagree that the right wing is typically against regulations?
    First I'd need your definition of 'right wing'.

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    Re: Tom Perkins' big idea: The rich should get more votes

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    The rich dont make people poor. The rich dont create poverty.
    The rich aggressively pursue their own best interests at the cost of a shrinking middle class and increasing government dependency. People are poor because they don't make enough money at their jobs. People don't make enough money at their jobs because the giant corporations that run everything know that they don't have to pay them a living wage to keep them working there. The number of people in poverty will shrink and the middle class will grow when income starts rising from the bottom instead of just the top. The nobility that the sycophants on the right wing adore so much will still be richer than everybody else if the poor can actually earn enough money to survive without government assistance.


    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    The rich already carry the vast majority of the country. MEANWHILE...nearly 40% of all new business startups in America are created by immigrants...people that come here with nothing seeking only opportunity and manage to work their way up from less than zero to success. MEANWHILE, there are literally thousands of new millionaires joining the upwardly mobile ranks every year. MEANWHILE...there is no shortage of people whining about how unfair it is that the rich have money and they dont, and about how the deck is always stacked against them, and how it sucks that mom doesnt stock more mountain dew and doritos.
    The bottom line is the rich control an extremely vast (and still growing) majority of the wealth in this country, poverty in increasing and the middle class is shrinking. You lack critical thinking if you cannot see how these things are connected. I don't care how many new millionaires there are every year. They are still an extreme minority, and even more people are becoming more and more impoverished and hopelessly entrenched in debt.

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    Re: Tom Perkins' big idea: The rich should get more votes

    Quote Originally Posted by Anomalism View Post
    The rich aggressively pursue their own best interests at the cost of a shrinking middle class and increasing government dependency. People are poor because they don't make enough money at their jobs. People don't make enough money at their jobs because the giant corporations that run everything know that they don't have to pay them a living wage to keep them working there. The number of people in poverty will shrink and the middle class will grow when income starts rising from the bottom instead of just the top. The nobility that the sycophants on the right wing adore so much will still be richer than everybody else if the poor can actually earn enough money to survive without government assistance.




    The bottom line is the rich control an extremely vast (and still growing) majority of the wealth in this country, poverty in increasing and the middle class is shrinking. You lack critical thinking if you cannot see how these things are connected. I don't care how many new millionaires there are every year. They are still an extreme minority, and even more people are becoming more and more impoverished and hopelessly entrenched in debt.
    And yet...people come her by the millions and prove how foolish your comments are. It isnt the rich that are your problem. Hell...it isnt even the immigrants that come here (legally and illegally) with less than nothing and prove you wrong that are your problem. Its...frankly...you. What will be interesting will be when they make all those illegal immigrants legal citizens and then we will see just how invested they too are in dragging around the dead weight of this country that insist success cant be found.

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