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Thread: Tom Perkins' big idea: The rich should get more votes

  1. #11
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    Re: Tom Perkins' big idea: The rich should get more votes

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Yea, but sometimes some selective views of our founders were absolutely horrible. **had to say it**
    I'm glad you did.

    The founders had a lot of great ideas. However, they were also exclusively white, straight (as far as we know), relatively affluent for the time, males who are all pretty much two centuries dead. They are not gods, they are not infallible. Some owned slaves, some were abolitionists. Some had progressive ideas, some had regressive ideas. One can cherry pick the ideas of the "founders" (and I put that in quotes since sometimes we can't all agree on who the founders actually were) and make any idea sound good.

    The idolatry of the "founders" by some is ludicrous. I'd rather make decisions based on the realities of today rather than base them on what people who predate baseball have to say about it. Call me crazy.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: Tom Perkins' big idea: The rich should get more votes

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfoot 88 View Post
    We could go back to only allowing property owners to vote. Would greatly kill city influence in elections.

    Of course people would never go for it.
    Because it's a horrifically bad idea.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: Tom Perkins' big idea: The rich should get more votes

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    That's a pretty terrible idea. That would create an even stronger plutocracy than we already have.

    The richest 10% of Americans control what, 75% of America's wealth?
    Their own wealth you mean. America doesn't own it. And we have a democracy system of choosing our republican decision makers, not plutocracy. A rich persons vote is equal to a poor persons. Although poor people elect rich people to represent them, for some reason. I don't imagine anyone would support his idea, but theres some merit to the alternative idea that if you don't pay taxes, you shouldn't vote.

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    Re: Tom Perkins' big idea: The rich should get more votes

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I have asked the question before should those who pay more income taxes get more votes seeing how they contribute more.
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/genera...ore-votes.html


    Tom Perkins' big idea: The rich should get more votes - Feb. 14, 2014
    Tom Perkins suggested Thursday that only taxpayers should have the right to vote -- and that wealthy Americans who pay more in taxes should get more votes.
    The rich already get more influence and access. If anything, it should be the other way around. But in reality, everyone gets 1 vote.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Tom Perkins' big idea: The rich should get more votes

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The rich already get more influence and access. If anything, it should be the other way around. But in reality, everyone gets 1 vote.
    Your saying that those who contribute less should have more of a say?
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Tom Perkins' big idea: The rich should get more votes

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Your saying that those who contribute less should have more of a say?
    Actually I said everyone gets 1 vote.

    But just being rich doesn't mean they contribute more. I'd take a factory worker over Paris Hilton any day as having more of an impact and more contribution overall. I mean, sure if you want only Paris Hilton and Nichole Richie deciding our government, you are free to advocate for it. I say everyone gets 1 vote.

    But the real point of that statement was to note that the very wealthy already have essentially more than one vote. They have more influence and more access to our government and its officials than poor people. So the teeter totter has already swung in the direction of the rich. If you wanted to keep it fair, you'd be advocating for the poor to have more votes.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  7. #17
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    Re: Tom Perkins' big idea: The rich should get more votes

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Actually I said everyone gets 1 vote.

    But just being rich doesn't mean they contribute more. I'd take a factory worker over Paris Hilton any day as having more of an impact and more contribution overall. I mean, sure if you want only Paris Hilton and Nichole Richie deciding our government, you are free to advocate for it. I say everyone gets 1 vote.

    But the real point of that statement was to note that the very wealthy already have essentially more than one vote. They have more influence and more access to our government and its officials than poor people. So the teeter totter has already swung in the direction of the rich. If you wanted to keep it fair, you'd be advocating for the poor to have more votes.
    I disagree with that.It is the media in general that has more access to our government than poor people.A candidate the media desires gets invited on Oprah and other similar talk shows, has positive news stories done about them and they get invited to debates that weasel out most of the other candidates. Name recognition ensures a easy victory.Its how a no name senator became president.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Tom Perkins' big idea: The rich should get more votes

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I disagree with that.It is the media in general that has more access to our government than poor people.A candidate the media desires gets invited on Oprah and other similar talk shows, has positive news stories done about them and they get invited to debates that weasel out most of the other candidates. Name recognition ensures a easy victory.Its how a no name senator became president.
    Our media isn't really the ones contributing monies for access, that would be the rich and the corporations.

    In the end, we just keep it to "everyone gets one vote" and that's that. We all should have equal say to the government since the government relies on our consent to govern. We should radically reform political contributions and the debates, but that's another story. 1 person, 1 vote.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Tom Perkins' big idea: The rich should get more votes

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Name recognition ensures a easy victory.Its how a no name senator became president.
    You realize these are diametrically opposite statements, right?
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

  10. #20
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    Re: Tom Perkins' big idea: The rich should get more votes

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Our media isn't really the ones contributing monies for access, that would be the rich and the corporations.

    People turn off and ignore ads.People however watch news stories, and shows like Oprah.This has way more influence than any bumper sticker or ad.The media doesn't really need any money to do this.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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