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Thread: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial[W:336]

  1. #71
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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    This is the first I have heard of this case. From what I read Dunn is fortunate to get off this easy if this verdict stands. It is one thing to carry a firearm and use it in self-defense, it's another thing to shoot into a car full of people then leave the scene.

    I am a CCL holder in the state of Texas. If I had been confronted with this situation, I would have attempted to leave before any shooting or fighting started.

    Something else, a person carrying a firearm is not supposed to have any alcohol in their system at all, and you certainly aren't supposed to leave the scene of the incident.

    On the surface this verdict seems to be a miscarriage of justice.

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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    The jury found that he didn't. You can harp the same old song as long as you'd like, Excon. You are in a distinct minority with them. I, for one, am grateful for that. The jury found that he was not acting in self-defense. From the bare-bones facts we have to work with, I agree with that finding. Your liberal views on what's self-defense and what's isn't don't even match those of the most liberal state of Florida. (Liberal not having political meaning here.)
    Liberal views? Utter nonsense. There is nothing liberal about it.
    Harp? No MaggieD, I pointed out where your reasoning was wrong. Big difference.


    If you fail to understand that a person does not have to wait until fired upon in order to use self defense, that is not my problem.

    There in no reliable evidence to suggest he is lying about what he saw. None.
    And while there is no direct evidence, there is circumstantial evidence to support that there was a weapon.
    But the jury could not reach a verdict on that charge.

    The other charges where absurd.
    Do you honestly think he intended to murder them?
    It is absurd to think so. He was shooting in defense at Davis.
    The Juries decision is what is a liberal interpretation of the law.


    So again.
    If he is later found not guilty, these current conviction will not stand, as his actions were in self defense which grants him immunity from all criminal actions in regards to his using such force.
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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Think you're mostly right here. I also think that's why many defendants don't take the stand. They've told their attorney "I did it" and the attorney can't let him testify because he knows he's lying. Attorneys can't do that. (That doesn't apply in this case though.)

    Oh, wait. No, the attorney is not required to tell the court someone confessed to them. I'd say that's what attorney/client privilege is all about. It'd be really interesting to know the ins and outs of ACP, though. Like, if a murderer tells his attorney where he stashed the murder weapon or where the bodies are buried is it legal for the attorney not to tell the cops? Hmmm.....
    I think you are right about them not having to tell the court. I was not well informed. However, I still believe the law should be changed. It should never be ok to deceive the court, and an attorney who has been told outright that "I shot the bastard" shouldn't be allowed to attempt to convince a jury that their client didn't. What purpose is served by allowing an attorney to deliberately deceive?
    You can never be safe from a government that can keep you completely safe from each other and the world. You must choose.

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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Texmex View Post
    This is the first I have heard of this case. From what I read Dunn is fortunate to get off this easy if this verdict stands. It is one thing to carry a firearm and use it in self-defense, it's another thing to shoot into a car full of people then leave the scene.

    I am a CCL holder in the state of Texas. If I had been confronted with this situation, I would have attempted to leave before any shooting or fighting started.

    Something else, a person carrying a firearm is not supposed to have any alcohol in their system at all, and you certainly aren't supposed to leave the scene of the incident.

    On the surface this verdict seems to be a miscarriage of justice.

    It seems the problem with this stand your ground statute in Florida is instead of making gun carriers operate from an abundance of caution and deliberately avoid combative encounters knowing they carry lethal force, it emboldens them to be more aggressive while carrying weapons. Yes I know stand your ground was never brought up in court in either the Zimmerman or Dunn cases but its possible they were thinking about it at the lead up to the killings thinking the law was on their side to give them a license to kill if things escalated.

    In my opinion he didn't get off easy. He's 47 years old and is facing a minimum 60 year sentence on the charges for which he was found guilty, 20 years each for 3 attempted murder convictions. Bail was denied so he's been in jail for over a year so rounding it up to 2 years time served credit while awaiting trial and he'll be in prison at least till age 105 if my math is right.

    47
    -2
    +20
    +20
    +20
    = 105 ??

    If the maximum sentence is given, he gets out at age 150.

    47
    -2
    +30
    +30
    +30
    +15
    = 150

    This is even with no verdict on murder; just attempted murder of his three friends and shooting a car.
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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    It seems the problem with this stand your ground statute in Florida is instead of making gun carriers operate from an abundance of caution and deliberately avoid combative encounters knowing they carry lethal force, it emboldens them to be more aggressive while carrying weapons. Yes I know stand your ground was never brought up in court in either the Zimmerman or Dunn cases but its possible they were thinking about it at the lead up to the killings thinking the law was on their side to give them a license to kill if things escalated.

    In my opinion he didn't get off easy. He's 47 years old and is facing a minimum 60 year sentence on the charges for which he was found guilty, 20 years each for 3 attempted murder convictions. Bail was denied so he's been in jail for over a year so rounding it up to 2 years time served credit while awaiting trial and he'll be in prison at least till age 105 if my math is right.

    47
    -2
    +20
    +20
    +20
    = 105 ??

    If the maximum sentence is given, he gets out at age 150.

    47
    -2
    +30
    +30
    +30
    +15
    = 150

    This is even with no verdict on murder; just attempted murder of his three friends and shooting a car.
    I like it. People with guns need to think twice before picking a fight. I hope this scumbag does a slow agonizing diapered death while in the prison's dementia ward.

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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Liberal views? Utter nonsense. There is nothing liberal about it.
    Harp? No MaggieD, I pointed out where your reasoning was wrong. Big difference.

    If you fail to understand that a person does not have to wait until fired upon in order to use self defense, that is not my problem.
    Of course, I disagree. Firing approximately multiple shots into an automobile moving away from you is NOT self-defense. "The teens drove off as Dunn began firing." I realize you're right and the rest of the world is wrong, but I'm sure that's not a new position for you.

    There in no reliable evidence to suggest he is lying about what he saw. None. And while there is no direct evidence, there is circumstantial evidence to support that there was a weapon. But the jury could not reach a verdict on that charge. The other charges where absurd. So again. If he is later found not guilty, these current conviction will not stand, as his actions were in self defense which grants him immunity from all criminal actions in regards to his using such force.
    I don't understand why they brought him up on 1st degree murder charges. Had they brought him up on some lesser charge, in my opinion, he would have been convicted. I don't think it was pre-meditated. Mistake.

    However, self-defense, as you know damned well, is an affirmative defense. It is up to the defendant to show that he acted in self-defense. Not up to the prosecution to prove that he didn't. He failed.

    Had I been on the jury, I would have been immediately suspect because he left the scene and didn't call the police. The idea that there's no need to contact the cops after you've unloaded ten rounds in self-defense is ludicrous. It has nothing to do with whether or not he broke some law in not doing so. And everything to do with those are not the actions of a reasonable man.

    Another poster here was right. You are the poster child for irresponsible gun ownership. As is he.

    There was no circumstantial evidence there was a gun. Only his word. And that? He didn't even happen to mention to his girlfriend. "Jesus. That guy pulled a gun on me." Nope. My guess he was drunk. That's why he left.

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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Of course, I disagree. Firing approximately multiple shots into an automobile moving away from you is NOT self-defense. "The teens drove off as Dunn began firing."
    Under the very limited amount of distance traveled, it is.
    As already pointed out, he was firing at the threat in the vehicle. That threat was not the driver. That threat was not moving away on his own, and because of the tint, he had no way of knowing if said threat was going to start blasting away.


    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I don't understand why they brought him up on 1st degree murder charges. Had they brought him up on some lesser charge, in my opinion, he would have been convicted. I don't think it was pre-meditated. Mistake.
    The current results are not because he was over charged. They jury had the option of find a guilty verdict on the lesser included offenses, M2 or just manslaughter. They didn't
    It is ridiculous to think that they couldn't come to a decision between the thee charges if they all believed he was guilty of something, it is more likely one or more would not convict period.


    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    However, self-defense, as you know damned well, is an affirmative defense. It is up to the defendant to show that he acted in self-defense. Not up to the prosecution to prove that he didn't. He failed.
    It is amazing that as many times as affirmative defense has been discussed that some folks still do not grasp it
    The defense does not have to prove anything.
    They have to make a showing of evidence to generate the self defense jury instruction. They met that burden by Dunn taking the stand.
    The prosecution then has to prove the all elements of the charge which she failed to do. Which is to disprove what he has stated.
    The prosecution failed.


    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Had I been on the jury, I would have been immediately suspect because he left the scene and didn't call the police.
    Be suspicious all you want. Not all people, or even a majority of all people, think straight for some time after a traumatic event.
    He stated he was in fear and that is believable. And his being in an unfamiliar surroundings makes it more believable.


    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    The idea that there's no need to contact the cops after you've unloaded ten rounds in self-defense is ludicrous.
    I care not if you think it is ridiculous. If there is no requirement that a person do so, you can not hold the person accountable for such.


    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    It has nothing to do with whether or not he broke some law in not doing so. And everything to do with those are not the actions of a reasonable man.
    WTF!
    Wrong. You do not hold a person who broke no law responsible just because you think his actions irresponsible. That is ludicrous.


    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    There was no circumstantial evidence there was a gun. Only his word.
    I have already explained this to you. You are wrong.


    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    And that? He didn't even happen to mention to his girlfriend. "Jesus. That guy pulled a gun on me." Nope. My guess he was drunk. That's why he left.
    There is no evidence that he was drunk or even slightly inebriated.
    And his train wreck of a girlfriend not remembering, doesn't mean he didn't.


    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Another poster here was right. You are the poster child for irresponsible gun ownership. As is he.
    Besides you being wrong about this, it was also an uncalled for personal comment. Shame.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    Actually, I had to wonder if part of the reason he didn't come forth immediately was intoxication.

    If the man was in fear for his life enough to open fire. He would have called the police IMMEDIATLY when he was at a safe distance. That is what a responsible gun-owner would do.

    Gotta wonder why he didn't.
    I agree its one of the biggest black marks on his story and why he has almost zero credibility after he factually was proven to be a liar.


    but yes theres nothing reasonable or logical about his actions at the gas station or after. This is why the thug is going to prison.
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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Texmex View Post
    You sound jealous.
    In ways I am, im jealous that i wont be around to at hear the wanna be tough guy who kills kids cry like a little girl
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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    I think Dunn is a racist killer who in a half drunk state thought he was making the world a better place by shooting up a car full of "black thugs" in his view after an incident where he was disrespected. However, its possible if the tripod in the SUV was brandished, it might have looked like a gun barrel to someone who had been drinking hard liquor all afternoon. Alternatively, as an avid gun enthusiast if the tripod was brandished, he might have known it wasn't a gun and it was just a kid trying to look tough but offered just the excuse he needed to in his mind legally kill some "thugs" in his view.
    regardless the streets are safer for us all with that nutball DUnn off of them
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